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Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

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Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is to do with media controllers (the managers of the megacorps) predicating value on number of copies reproduced. Shows are not to be allowed to be given only the value of production but must be talked up to have a value according to the number of copies - the more expensive the copies can be made to appear the more realistic it seems that a copy should cost more. Charging $20 per viewer for content that…

This is a very risky business. People won't put money if reward is only 10%. And you are talking about successful products. The overall return would be far lower.

Actually, it's risk / reward that drives people.

Low percentage returns aren't anywhere near as sexy as high ones are. Right?

But then again, a sure thing carries a lot more weight than it does sex appeal.

The people making blockbusters won't be happy with that, but the people telling stories totally will. Serial programming that pays consistently is attractive to those people wanting to tell stories in exchange for a nice life.

IMHO, if we actually did go down this road, we might be surprised at what people would pay for and why.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true to the point where you can barely believe services release the products they do. The experience on Popcorn Time vs HBO GO isn't even comparable. HBO GO serves their content through a laggy flash player that you can't even force to play HD. Why would anyone watch non-HD content in a terrible browser player that wastes additional battery when they can open Popcorn Time in the time that it takes for the HBO…

I feel the same applies to physical media releases too. Trying to watch a DVD is an absolutely miserable experience with menus and restricted actions. It's for this reason that I have the majority of the content I own ripped and stored in an iTunes library where I can access it quickly from my Apple TV.

Yep. Way back in the day, I happened to setup the Open Source OGLE DVD player software. I think it was Mandrake Linux, running on some PC with a Matrox G400 card --the one with nice 2D, and great DVD support.

Insert disc, press T, then P, and you are watching the movie, no BS. Took maybe 5 seconds tops after disk mount.

Turned out to be popular, so I bought a real DVD player for the family, and we hated that thing.

"Aladdin" is talked about a lot, but it's true! Every single time the kids wanted to watch that thing, it was something like 15 minutes of previews for all this other cool stuff, over and over.

That was the first DVD I ripped. Couldn't stand it. And once setup for that, I ripped 'em all, and also got the benefit of younger ones not destroying fragile media at some considerable expense all the time too. That and losing it, or swapping with friends...

For a number of years, I replaced that "real" DVD player with OGLE setup to just play the movie no matter what.

Was great OSS advocacy. Suddenly, a whole bunch of people knew who a "geek" and "hacker" was, what software was, how it can impact lives, and all sorts of other good things just because DVD media producers just HAD to annoy the crap out of people. Funny that!

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#233
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iTunes is missing real-time release of TV, and timely release of movies. For instance, I have a season pass to Mad Men right now, which airs on sunday nights. I don't get the iTunes release until midnight, so I end up not watching it until Monday (even though I pay for it!). If I used torrents, I could watch it Sunday night with everyone else. Other shows have it far worse! New movies usually enter the iTunes market…

>> "For instance, I have a season pass to Mad Men right now, which airs on sunday nights. I don't get the iTunes release until midnight, so I end up not watching it until Monday (even though I pay for it!)." Shit. We've actually gotten to the point where waiting a few hours for something is considered a good reason to pirate. Just when I thought self-entitlement couldn't get any worse.

While I'm inclined to agree, perhaps the grandparent poster looks forward to a lively discussion of the plot at lunch with colleagues. It's not my passion in life, but I could see it being an act of community for some.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#234
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you using a computer? I think most people watch TV on a TV, where "legit" apps aren't based on Flash.

i have a sony bravia at home and using its interface with the provided apps simply sucks. it's slow and cumbersome, while in contrast it's so easy to plugin a PC with wireless keyboard / controller / remote and just use regular applications, a state-of-the-art web browser and so on.

This was our experience with a Samsung Smart TV.

The TV apps are crappy, with the exception of Netflix, which is actually quite good. Best thing on the TV itself.

Over time, my family has consistently preferred either a PC for viewing (laptop), or a game console or a PC connected to a TV for viewing.

The little boxes are crappy, and using a TV remote is too.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#235
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you using a computer? I think most people watch TV on a TV, where "legit" apps aren't based on Flash.

old, not most. Old people watch commercials with occasional break for content on tv

Until a younger one shows them what streaming is.

No joke.

Commercials are so goddamn brutal now. Just about anyone will do the work to get a better experience.

Same with cord cutting. Just show 'em. They weigh that monthly $150 or so, commercials, etc... against just buying stuff they want and it's a no brainer, save for sports.

That's the reason ESPN is brutal. They know they are an anchor for much of the Cable TV business. Anybody who can ditch that probably is doing so right now.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Internet broke the whole idea of charging for a digital copy of something. We’re seeing a struggle of powers as old power tries to cling on to the idea of charging people for digital copies but it will end sooner or later. One needs to think outside the box of capitalism being an appropriate system for all aspects of society.

Well do get in touch when someone sets up a postcapitalist film company that's willing to pay for camera rental, meals, wages and all the other expenses that go into making a film, because the fixed costs of making the original work haven't gone away. I find discussions like this one really aggravating to read because there seems to be total indifference to the fact that producing a movie to entertain you for two hou…

Mosfilm--back in the USSR

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#237
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon Instant Video doesn't work on GNU/Linux. It also doesn't work offline. It also requires proprietary software at every turn. None of these problems are the case with p2p sharing.

The number of people who care about those things are a rounding error.

However the people who care vehemently about such things are the ones with the motive and means to set up a global convenient alternative content delivery network.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#238
post #12

There would be less incentive toward this kind of piracy if content producers and distributors could get their collective acts together with more liberal licensing. Popcorn Time is winning because it's easier to use and find content than any pay service. Like anything, you compete by making a better product/service -- not by complaining that your competitors are unfair. Of course, they are certainly unfair here, but…

Honest actors can't compete with people who ignore the law though - you acknowledge yourself that the competition here is unfair. Yes, by ignoring copyright and not compensating content creators at all, you can create a service that offers vast amounts of content for free. A legitimate business can't do that. Saying 'well, sorry, the market has spoken and the price they are willing to pay for your content is $0' is j…

They can.

There are a few use cases here:

1. Massive pirate. Won't pay for anything. If we made it a perfect world, they would just mooch off other people in the extreme, never paying for anything.

They won't be customers. Ever. But they do talk about stuff, make recommendations, etc... So they can be leveraged in that way. Show them an AD, or have them do some other minor league thing of value, and trade on that for some value. Good as it gets.

And it's important to factor these people in. Their copies and views don't devalue anything. Ignore their $0, and consider anything of value derived from their mindshare as a bonus.

2. Casual pirate. These people will pay, but don't want to be annoyed. Good service, making it easy, etc... all counts, and massive numbers of them will subscribe to lots of things. Cord cutters fall in to this bucket too. Cut out the $150 cable bill, and sign up for a few services, then buy things on top of that. Big cable loses a revenue stream, but content creators and service providers gain one.

3. Buyer. They typically have more means than most, and just pay because it's not a big impact to them. Upper middle class and above here mostly.

What people make, and what $10 means to them is absolutely a factor in how to compete with free works. The difference between #2 and #3 here is important.

Secondly, entertainment dollars are largely fixed for many people. Actually, my experience is this is true for most people. There is some flex in it, but there aren't billions laying around unspent somehow as most entertainment centric arguments imply. Most people have a coupla hundred bucks to spend. And the various forms of entertainment compete too. A summer of good movies? Yeah, maybe buy one less game.

Recognition of this means understanding price points, incentives to spend and how / when / why to compete with other entertainment forms to optimize revenue. Very little is being said about this, but we are seeing flat rate services compete fairly well while delivering consistent revenue.

All of this is particularly relevant to #2 above.

Considering all of these together highlights some ways to compete with free.

Be the free source. Pirating has some negatives attached to it. So side step those and give people options that can send value your way.

Increasingly, it's possible to stream now. I am a fan of AMC "Halt And Catch Fire" and do not have cable. I can't go and buy AMC just yet, and they didn't put the show on the services I do subscribe to.

On a quick check, there it was! Right there on the AMC site, and they want me to watch an AD, maybe participate in the little activities and potentially do other things in return for my eyeballs on the show.

Result?

Incentive to pirate goes way down. I've got a path in, and would gladly have gave them money for the views too.

Cory Doctrow does this with his books too. If you want to read 'em, he's the source for that. Grab and go. If you want to translate, or do fan derivatives, he will source that too.

I did that with "Down and Out In the Magic Kingdom", and really liked his work. Bought a lot of hard copies of his stuff since then. Had it not been that easy and obvious, I might have gotten some PDF, or other, or more likely, not done anything and would not know the guy at all.

Mindshare matters. Buying it with views to compete is a perfectly valid business model. And giving people options like sharing / recommending / gifting means those who can pay with dollars will, and those who can't or won't, can do some work that leads to dollars. It's all dollars in the end, done right.

So there are a couple of ways right there. Both compete with free, both leverage mindshare to get some value while at the same time offering purchase opportunities.

The more of this there is, the less people will pirate, leaving us with just that use case #1 above, and there is nothing to be done with those people, other than to leverage their mindshare somehow.

Maximizing revenue is all about the other use cases and recognition of the nature of entertainment dollars and pricing on that understanding, IMHO.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#239
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great strategy. As the dozens of popcorn time forks have shown us it not only does not work, but it is also taking intelligent nonviolent programmers and ruining their lives in prisons around the world. The MPAA and friends couldn't look more evil if they wore a fake mustache and tried twirling it.

It works great if your intention is to intimidate and fragment communities that promote widespread piracy into irrelevance.

The last ten years have shown that to be false.

Re: Inside Popcorn Time, the Piracy Party Hollywood Can't Stop

#240
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that was harsh. Why is the rationale for Americans pirating 'selfish greed'? People, in general, pirate because it's free and really, really easy. There are many cases where services like Spotify and Netflix have reduced piracy. People are lazy, and if you can make it easier and more seamless than pirating, most people won't mind shelling out a couple of bucks a month for paid service. http://www.slashgear.com/n…

Regardless of your motivation it's stealing.

Actually, it's infringing.

And yes, that distinction does matter. When somebody infringes, nothing is lost. The opportunity for a sale still exists, the property is still owned by those who own it, and so forth.

For there to be theft, there needs to be some meaningful loss on the part of the person claiming theft.

We have the word infringe for this case, because nothing is actually lost. What actually happens is somebody does something they aren't supposed to do, which is a different thing, and not inclusive enough to be theft.

Now, citing theft is nice, because it's easy, clear and very negative. People identify with theft easily, and that's potent. Advocacy centered on theft is understandable, but it does as much harm as it does good.

Why?

Because theft and the direct equating to lost sales does not reflect the realities in play. Where we make law on that basis, we tend to get crappy law that is ineffective.

People see stuff like $150K / infringing act and or proposed jail time, and it's laughable compared to something like rape or real theft that carries far lighter penalties, and that actually is theft as opposed to infringement.

I submit we really can't make progress on this without also entertaining a rational discussion, and tossing theft in here really isn't rational. It's too coarse and inaccurate.

Infringement is wrong. And it's a harder discussion, but a necessary one. Until average people get it, and understand all of it, we will continue to see a big disconnect in both the discussion and law, leaving the door open for more piracy and fewer solutions that can compete with it, etc...

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