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This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

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Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#51

Post by talmand »

sanderjd wrote: post #37
bigpeopleareold wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is, unless the author considers "America changing its mind" and "judicial thought" to be the same thing. I immediately picked up on this as well, the common theme being what federal and state courts thinks.

This is really one of the most interesting questions in our system. I tend to be in favor of this sort of judicial action, but it's always in the back of my head that I'm only in favor of it because so far it has all gone my way. It is frightening to think that someday I'll find myself on the frustrating side of an issue where only a truly heroic amount of legislation can overrule the opinions of a few tens of legal…

That's a point that I've seen many try to make, regardless of their actual opinion on the matter, only to be shouted down. It's as if some people don't understand that such a thing could eventually be used against them. It seems that many people don't consider the long-term effects of their short-term gains. The court system can be fickle, what it does that benefits you today can be reversed in the future to your detriment.

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#52

Post by goodcanadian »

twoodfin wrote: post #9

The case comes amid a wave of gay marriage legalization... This phrase, and the title, mask the fact that in the majority of states same-sex marriage legalization came from court cases, not through legislation or referenda[1]. "America", broadly construed, is quickly changing its mind, too, but this "wave" is more a product of judicial thought than public opinion. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in…

Judicial opinion often follows public opinion more closely than you might think. The constitution did not apply to non-whites until it did. Women did not have equal rights to men, and then they did. It was not the constitution changing but rather the legal interpretation of it.

Edited to add: the court cases do not occur until a significant portion of the population believes in an issue enough to be willing to fight for it. Even then, the courts may take a significant amount if time adjusting their legal interpretation.

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#53

Post by talmand »

saraid216 wrote: post #50
twoodfin wrote: post #9

The case comes amid a wave of gay marriage legalization... This phrase, and the title, mask the fact that in the majority of states same-sex marriage legalization came from court cases, not through legislation or referenda[1]. "America", broadly construed, is quickly changing its mind, too, but this "wave" is more a product of judicial thought than public opinion. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in…

In America, there's no longer much legitimacy placed in legislation; we generally look to the judiciary for any actual governing thought these days. Legislation is mostly seen as a stepping stone; it's not until it's been tested in court that a law is really valid.

I find that sort of statement deeply disturbing.

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#54

Post by adventured »

intopieces wrote: post #36

The problem with the analysis re: Marijuana is that it appears to leave out the anti-drug treaties we've signed with other UN members. As I understand it, federal legalization is a nonstarter w/r/t that agreement.

Any treaty that's inconvenient will be abandoned, with hardly a second thought. Those treaties are the least concerning challenge in the entire legalization process, they are truly irrelevant.

Nothing will happen to the US if it abandons those treaties. It'll be a blip in the news for one day, as a few grumbles are heard. Other than that, what you'll hear is mostly cheering and celebrating.

Other countries will take it as a cue that the global war on drugs the US has been prosecuting is now over, and they will begin legalizing (this is already underway). It's no longer a question of if; at this point nothing will stop the inevitable rolling back of the war on drugs, the momentum is overwhelming.

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#55

Post by mikeash »

Vaskivo wrote: post #49
serve_yay wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't recommend the link above. It's garbage

You have a five minute difference in your posts. Did you ever read the article? I'm not agreing completely with it, but I'll refrain from commenting until I finished reading it.

Maybe he was already familiar with it before?

I also wonder just how far into an article like this you have to read before you can accurately describe it as garbage. You come across nice quotes like "Contraception made it possible for females to conduct campaigns to act on their urges of hypergamy." pretty early on. Is it really necessary to drink the entire bottle of crap before one can safely declare that it is, in fact, crap?

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#56

Post by M8 »

serve_yay wrote: post #44
M8 wrote: post #41

I wonder how quickly will this one get recognized, at the moment it's just an underground movement on Reddit and "Manosphere" etc.: http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.h...

I don't recommend the link above. It's garbage

I am sure every civil rights movement faces similar kind of backlash in the beginning.

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#57

Post by psychometry »

Vaskivo wrote: post #49
serve_yay wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't recommend the link above. It's garbage

You have a five minute difference in your posts. Did you ever read the article? I'm not agreing completely with it, but I'll refrain from commenting until I finished reading it.

There's a summary right at the top. It's your typical set of men's rights talking points dressed up in sociological bullshit and I'm disappointed to be seeing it on HN, since these lunatics have already ruined much of reddit.

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#58

Post by saraid216 »

talmand wrote: post #53
saraid216 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America, there's no longer much legitimacy placed in legislation; we generally look to the judiciary for any actual governing thought these days. Legislation is mostly seen as a stepping stone; it's not until it's been tested in court that a law is really valid.

I find that sort of statement deeply disturbing.

Well, yes. So do I. That's why I felt I had to say it.

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#59

Post by psychometry »

M8 wrote: post #41

I wonder how quickly will this one get recognized, at the moment it's just an underground movement on Reddit and "Manosphere" etc.: http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.h...

Let us hope that this movement remains firmly situated in your "manosphere" then and keep this shit off HN.
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