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This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

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21–30 of 118 posts

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#21
post #2

While the speed of change is good for these issues, could that speed be detrimental in other scenarios? For example, what if this increases the speed to reverse good policies, such as carbon emissions taxes? What if the speed of change from political influence of much larger entities (corporations) also increases the influence to reverse things even faster?

There is no carbon tax at the federal level. America changing its mind on carbon policy would be a good thing.

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#23
post #13
post #2

While the speed of change is good for these issues, could that speed be detrimental in other scenarios? For example, what if this increases the speed to reverse good policies, such as carbon emissions taxes? What if the speed of change from political influence of much larger entities (corporations) also increases the influence to reverse things even faster?

The title is misleading. "America Changes Its Mind" sounds like it's talking about people's opinions, but the data presented is about legal status at the state level. This is misleading because there's a strong discontinuity there, and the speed at which states legalize something doesn't have to be related to the speed at which opinions change. For an extreme case, consider some issue where opinions are evenly spread…

What would be interesting would be a graph comparing the repeal of anti-interracial marriage laws to actual incidences of interracial marriages (adjusting for relative populate percentages of the races involved, etc.)

I have a strong suspicion that the results would indicate that America itself doesn't really change its mind all that quickly even after the legal changes take place.

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#24
Hmm. This seems to focus on a few issues that neatly fall into a sense of "progress" in social change, in which something changes in a number of states culminating in a Supreme Court decision that causes that change to affect the entire country.

However, it ignores some issues that don't fall into such a pattern. For example, the issue of teaching evolution vs. creation in public schools; where teaching about evolution has never been questioned (as far as I know) in some states, while others have had laws on the books, and there is continuing pressure and laws that offer limited "workarounds" of the supreme court decision in order to promote "teaching the controversy", so it's not really a clear cut case of progress.

Another that isn't covered is capital punishment; some states have never had capital punishment, some have repealed it over the years, and the Supreme Court briefly suspended it nationwide but it was reinstated later, and many states still practice it.

Abortion, which is used as an example in this article, faces a similar problems as teaching of evolution. While abortion was allowed nationwide by Roe v. Wade, states are slowly introducing laws that restrict it so heavily that it's not available to a large fraction of people who need it. The turning point nationwide is being slowly turned back by laws that skirt the existing precedent.

It seems like picking these couple of issues, to show how "it may happen again", is a bit disingenuous without also covering major cases in which change hasn't followed this pattern, or has backslid since the original change.

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#25
From the last graph, it seems like the rate of change (if that's what you'd call it) is closely related to the time period in which the change is taking place, or at least the time period in which the change started. I wonder if this has to do with a general increase in malleability of (judicial) opinions, or faster information transfer, or something else.

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#27
Abortion and gay marriage were changed in the courts, so I don't know if that counts as America changing its mind. That being said, I would posit that any increase in the rate of America changing its mind is due to the increase in the rate of information exchange due to advances in communication technology.

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#28
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title is misleading. "America Changes Its Mind" sounds like it's talking about people's opinions, but the data presented is about legal status at the state level. This is misleading because there's a strong discontinuity there, and the speed at which states legalize something doesn't have to be related to the speed at which opinions change. For an extreme case, consider some issue where opinions are evenly spread…

What would be interesting would be a graph comparing the repeal of anti-interracial marriage laws to actual incidences of interracial marriages (adjusting for relative populate percentages of the races involved, etc.) I have a strong suspicion that the results would indicate that America itself doesn't really change its mind all that quickly even after the legal changes take place.

> What would be interesting would be a graph comparing the repeal of anti-interracial marriage laws to actual incidences of interracial marriages

Not quite, but close enough: http://xkcd.com/1431/

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#29
post #9

The case comes amid a wave of gay marriage legalization... This phrase, and the title, mask the fact that in the majority of states same-sex marriage legalization came from court cases, not through legislation or referenda[1]. "America", broadly construed, is quickly changing its mind, too, but this "wave" is more a product of judicial thought than public opinion. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in…

Its analysis is also perhaps weakened by not accounting for the backlash from states that passed new legislation to block gay marriages and the recognition of gay marriages.

An interesting contrast might be the UK, which in the space of 10 years moved from a government eventually winning a legislative battle to revise a local government act to remove wording prohibiting "the promotion of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship" in 2003, via civil partnerships the following year to full gay marriage in 2013, introduced by a Conservative Prime Minister who had once supported attempts to block the removal of the ban on "promotion of homosexuality". Opinion polls suggested that majority public opinion shifted in a similar direction over that period of time.

I suspect American attitudes towards perceived culture war will be a little more stubborn...

Re: This Is How Fast America Changes Its Mind

#30
post #2

While the speed of change is good for these issues, could that speed be detrimental in other scenarios? For example, what if this increases the speed to reverse good policies, such as carbon emissions taxes? What if the speed of change from political influence of much larger entities (corporations) also increases the influence to reverse things even faster?

Who defines whether a policy is "good" or not? You seem to take the definition for granted.
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