F-35 Engines from United Technologies Called Unreliable by GAO
31–40 of 77 posts
Re: F-35 Engines from United Technologies Called Unreliable by GAO
#32Oh no, the Sea Wolf works, but is too expensive at $2B/boat! Let's scrap the working program, use "lessons learned" to build a cheaper attack submarine. Years of delays and cost overruns follow, and we get the inferior Virginia class, at a bargain-basement price of $3B.
Oh no, the F22 works, but is too expensive at $150M/plane! (Would have been less over time, but who's counting?) Let's scrap the working program, use "lessons learned" to build a cheaper fighter. Years of delays and cost overruns follow, no working plane in sight, but if it ever flies, we will get the inferior F35, at a bargain-basement price of $350M/plane.
I can't wait to see what happens when the Ohio-class replacement program starts for real. Also can't wait to see what happens when healthcare is fully nationalized — I'm sure the bureaucracy in charge will be so much sleeker and more efficient than the Pentagon, and special interests so much less influential in Congress. Oh, wait: annual US military spending is about $750B, and healthcare adds up to $3.5T.
Re: F-35 Engines from United Technologies Called Unreliable by GAO
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every air force in the world wants these expensive beasts, it's the entire identity of the service - TOP GUN knights of old jousting for supremacy. The command structure of most air forces comes from the fighter pilots, it's a common complaint in USAF that transport, which is maybe the most useful day to day function, is a career dead-end. Nobody in the military will take seriously a "warrior" that runs a joystick on…
> Every air force in the world wants these expensive beasts, it's the entire identity of the service - TOP GUN knights of old jousting for supremacy. I agree that these are shiny new tools for the airforce and its pilots. Here in Canada it has been a public shitstorm of rapidly increasing procurement costs and quality issues. Canada has officially delayed purchasing F-35 for the foreseeable future: http://ottawacitiz…
Re: F-35 Engines from United Technologies Called Unreliable by GAO
#3490 - 120 hours is the target MTBF for a jet engine? _mind blown_ glad I am not in aeronautics.
The MTBF for a military aircraft as a whole system in general would likely be pretty low since it's composed of so many systems. In essence, something is likely degraded on the aircraft at any given time. That is why there are dual redundancies and easily swappable units.
Re: F-35 Engines from United Technologies Called Unreliable by GAO
#35Let us not forget that the "backup" engine program was cut http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/16/house-votes-to-kill... Not looking like such a great idea now ehh? Oh yeah, we're supposed to forget these things.
I remember some talk about it being more about politics than saving money. I can't remember what politician it was, but they were one of the big pushers of closing down GE's alternative engine program, which was convenient since they were from Connecticut where Pratt & Whitney is located (If I remember correctly).
Basically they wanted their state to benefit exclusively.
Not to say GE's engine would be in much better shape right now either. I am really not sure what the right decision would have been.
Re: F-35 Engines from United Technologies Called Unreliable by GAO
#36We could clear out all student debt in the United States and have a handful of change left over... ...or we could build a plane that doesn't fly.
PS - Before people yell "China," China's air power isn't even on par with what the US currently has. Their only remotely threatening aircraft is a bad clone of the F-35.
Re: F-35 Engines from United Technologies Called Unreliable by GAO
#37We could clear out all student debt in the United States and have a handful of change left over... ...or we could build a plane that doesn't fly.
I would maybe understand if the goal of this program was to produce a weapons system that was a great leap forward in performance, but the F-35 was never designed to be that. It was supposed to remove the need for 3 or 4 different specialized aircraft by creating a general-purpose platform that can serve in multiple roles. It's essentially a cost-reduction program that basically fails at reducing costs because of the additional overhead some of the requirements brought.
In its current iteration, it doesn't do that, and having a single-engine fighter jet is a colossally stupid idea. In the event of engine failure, the pilot has no choice but to eject because fighters are far less aerodynamically stable than passenger planes, and with no engine power, the plane wouldn't be controllable. You don't have these problems in two-engine fighters -- if one engine goes out, you can still limp back to base and land the plane. So your single engine has to be that much more powerful and reliable, which leads to an engine that is more expensive to buy and that needs to be maintained more often. So they ultimately fail in reducing cost and complexity.
For the roles the F-35 will be appropriate for by the time it's finished, drones will be a much better option. The F-35 is explicitly not an air superiority fighter (a role human pilots are still better suited for, and for which the F-22 is a far superior aircraft), and most of the ground support and reconnaissance roles the F-35 is supposed to play are already handled by drones today.
The program only exists because big defense programs are parceled out to congressional districts, whose representatives are loathe to lose the jobs. I don't think the military even wants it that badly at this point.
Re: F-35 Engines from United Technologies Called Unreliable by GAO
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Procurement is often not about warfighting but about politics. That's why they split construction up among multiple locations -- that's multiple congressmen who have a vested incentive in seeing that money continue to roll into their district and provide jobs.
It's basically "New Deal"-type spending that is acceptable to the right wing (which, for the most part these days, includes the Democrats). The economy is in shambles, so you have to do something about it. But fixing the economy would involve breaking from your orthodoxy and upsetting your wealthy sponsors. So what do you do? Pay the unemployed to build killing machines, everyone loves those.
Re: F-35 Engines from United Technologies Called Unreliable by GAO
#39We could clear out all student debt in the United States and have a handful of change left over... ...or we could build a plane that doesn't fly.
... For an enemy that doesn't exist in a war that won't happen... PS - Before people yell "China," China's air power isn't even on par with what the US currently has. Their only remotely threatening aircraft is a bad clone of the F-35.
Re: F-35 Engines from United Technologies Called Unreliable by GAO
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not trying to justify the F-35, it's a cluster fuck, but manned aircraft will be around for a while. Unless the operator is local, the communication latency for UAVs makes them unsuitable for some types of combat missions.
For some types, not all of them. Also, 'Unmanned' does not necessarily means "remote-controlled". They can be autonomous. We are making progress: http://www.naval-technology.com/news/newsus-navys-x-47b-cond... This is after carrier landings and takeoffs and formation flying with manned aircraft. And all that developed at a fraction of what the F-35 program will spend on engines alone
Executive Summary: Just having a bunch of autonomous machines that are licensed to kill is bad for things like democracy and political stability.