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Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

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Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#191
post #36

I've been unfairly fired several times, so my advice is: 1. Forget it, that job is over, it can't be salvaged. Knowing it's over, do the minimum work. 2. Start actively looking. Even if you don't find a new job within 30 days, you'll start getting interviews in your pipeline. 3. If it's so bad that it's making you sick (trouble sleeping, etc.), then just walk away now. Otherwise, there are advantages to saying on to…

> Knowing it's over, do the minimum work. I strongly disagree with this step. Ensure your performance is exceptional, flawless, and that everyone sees it. It's hard to do, hard to keep focus and not slip when everyone else is misbehaving, but it pays off: 1) It keeps your hands clean. Others won't know the inside story of why you were let go; if they see you slacking, they will doubt your character and work ethic and…

I firmly agree, never burn your bridges. A bit like Karma or wearing a seat belt, you never know when it will pay back but, it will pay back.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#192

What do I do? Do I simply begin looking for other positions? If you mean external other positions, the answer is yes. Looking for internal transfer is not going to be effective. Once on a PIP, your odds of moving are effectively zero. No one will say that transfer's impossible (legal/HR reasons) but it's basically over. It sounds like you were a good worker but broke the #1 Rule of Corporate Employment: make the boss…

>> You have knowledge of illegal activity.

I'm surprised you bought this as well. The OP claims there are compliance issues contrary to federal law, but he's not a lawyer (at least the OP did not state he was) or a compliance expert (indeed a novice needing traingin), and anyone who's dealt with compliance knows there are vast degrees of wiggle room when interpreting regulations. So, the claims of illegal activity are hollow and unstubstantiate, imo.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#193
post #84

1. Don't quit before/unless you have another position, let them fire you. 2. Getting fired will not blackball you, companies do not validate anything generally beyond dates of employment, salary and sometimes "eligible for rehire", but that has become more uncommon to ask/answer. I have seen at large firms even when a person is terminated for valid reasons, and the manager and executives have said they will never wor…

It's simply false that companies do not validate anything beyond dates of employment. Supposedly all companies are so terrified of lawsuits they won't do anything, but actually there is no mechanism which will allow the candidate to discover what was mentioned on the back channel, and the good old boy network is very much alive. If someone wants to make sure you don't get hired, there are ways. When it comes to your…

My advice isn't Pollyanna advice. I have worked at Fortune 10 and Fortune 500 firms as well as in startups, plus I have run my own company for years now. In all those places I have held senior positions at one time or another. So my experience is real and practical. In the larger firms generally managers and above are trained to redirect all reference requests and employment verifications to HR, especially for employees who were terminated. This is a risk mitigation procedure by the companies, as lawsuits are real. And generally past employees do find out when employers try to damage them because of friends or sympathizers still at the company will reach out and let them know.

You say back channels are the way and the good ole boy network still exists. I agree to a point, but practical experience again is showing me that even using people I know they are reluctant to answer questions because they fear reprisal not just from lawsuits, but for what should happen when they need a job (direct quote from someone not too long ago). Today's person you fire could be your boss shortly down the road, so I think this contributes to why generally I find experienced people reluctant to give any real details. Exceptions happen though, and in cases of theft, arrest etc I have seen more direct responses since there is generally public record, but again, that is a very low percentage of times. Also, as @HillRat said, SMB's can be more volatile since they generally lack professional HR and so that is a little more subject to the good ole boy network and off the cuff comments. Or the pregnant pause as he also mentioned.

Personally in my current and past businesses, we will validate employment dates, salary if they already have the number (otherwise that is the employees personal data), job title and what the job position entailed. We generally give no indication as to why the person left or whether it was voluntary or not. In large organizations these types of calls go to an HR group or even to an outside firm that only has 4-5 pieces of data on people. Home Depot Supply at one time had an automated system that handled all verification of employment calls to prevent mishaps from happening. I have no clue if this is still the case, but it was creative.

If an employee leaves on their own, or asks me personally for a reference I will make a judgement call about if I will do it, how much to say and how to handle it. But in the cases where someone was terminated they rarely list that manager as a reference so those calls come from a verification of employment perspective, where we answer the bare minimum.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#194
Look for the job now. While you're still employed, you have an airtight excuse for not providing a manager reference from your current job ("They don't know I'm looking."). That lets you provide either your last manager, or a sympathetic coworker instead.

Wait until you're gone and it gets much sketchier. People will assume the worst if you don't provide your previous manager.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Knowing it's over, do the minimum work. I strongly disagree with this step. Ensure your performance is exceptional, flawless, and that everyone sees it. It's hard to do, hard to keep focus and not slip when everyone else is misbehaving, but it pays off: 1) It keeps your hands clean. Others won't know the inside story of why you were let go; if they see you slacking, they will doubt your character and work ethic and…

I think this puts too much emphasis on what people will think at the place that is about to fire your ass. If it's coming, vamping won't save you, and it probably doesn't matter much what those people think, in either direction.

It's not your manager you're impressing here, it's your coworkers. Companies get backchannel references from people who've worked with you, if they're at the company you're applying to. An extreme case is Google, who'll ask anyone and everyone in the company who have an intersection in resumes with you.

Also, easiest way to get another job is for an ex-coworker to recommend you. Keep those bridges built.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with resigning. If you resign and are in the US, you give up the ability to file for unemployment. I would start cutting expenses and start looking for something new until that day comes.

Does the US allow "constructive dismissal" claims? In the UK, if you feel you are being worked out of a job the official advice is to quit, otherwise any claim of constructive dismissal becomes more complex.

US is generally at-will(1), so the idea of being "subtly fired" only comes up in unemployment claims, where -sometimes- you can make the case you quit because you had no choice (hours dropped to zero, intentionally untenable working conditions, etc.). But otherwise, there are very few guarantees about the circumstances of being dismissed, and therefore not a lot of room for constructive dismissal type claims.

(1) There are exceptions around specific circumstances: explicit contracts, implicit contracts (in some states) by way of publishing firing procedures in employee handbooks, and a requirement (in a very few states, but notably for software, California) for good-faith behavior by employers. PIPs are part of the "reason to dismiss" documentation for that last bit. Still, your usual recourse is collecting unemployment, not anything more drastic.

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#197
If you're about to be fired, I advocated saying NEXT and moving on to something better. We work with about 25 tech startups here in NYC, and currently have a handful of Data Sci Roles that could be more than happy to chat. Feel free to shoot me a note: taylor@singlesprout.com. Happy to help!

Re: Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

#198
What makes you think you'll be blackballed from most firms in the city? So you don't get to use them as a reference. Who cares? The company isn't allowed to disclose why they fired you. You can just say "it wasn't a good fit for me" in your next interview. If they do pry and you acknowledge you were let go, explain the reasoning (and remain objective without placing blame), and they might see your side, too, or understand that you'll be a good employee.

I think you're way over-thinking this. Being terminated from a job doesn't ruin your prospects for any future position.

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