Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do?

> Make a local copy of the evidence and store it safe. If someone wants to play hardball you don't want your position to rely on your word or anyone else's.

Quoting for truth.

What companies with formalized processes like "30 day review period" are doing with their time is trying to produce a paper trail, usually to defend a decision that's already been made on some level.

You want to be doing the same thing (and, if possible, finding out what kind of trail they're possibly producing)... not necessarily to defend your continued current employment (though that's an option if you want to and you've got good enough evidence), but in case this issue ever comes up in the future.

1. Don't quit before/unless you have another position, let them fire you.

2. Getting fired will not blackball you, companies do not validate anything generally beyond dates of employment, salary and sometimes "eligible for rehire", but that has become more uncommon to ask/answer. I have seen at large firms even when a person is terminated for valid reasons, and the manager and executives have said they will never work here again, HR will answer the question "Yes" to eligible for rehire. This is because they know answering it any other way can lead to a potential law suit which may unearth unrelated facts during discovery that would be damaging.

3. If you get fired and are on an interview, don't lie about being terminated if asked, and don't plea your case to them, they don't care and will not look fond on you pleading a case or dishing details on a former employer. If directly asked if you were terminated, just say yes I was let go. Generally most people won't push for why, but if they do, you could say something along the lines, well over the past few months (or whatever time period) my manager needed a different skill set on the team then I posses and so I wasn't a good fit any longer. Frankly, his/her skill set you were lacking is dishonesty or questionable morals however you want to look at it. So you aren't lying, just framing the conversation so it isn't negative to the company or really yourself.

4. Even in small towns you can find another job, larger towns is even easier, don't panic. It is scary but don't panic.

5. As for the situation, you can send an email to your manager or the the director in charge of your department again. Do it not with the goal of saving your job or making enemies, but with protecting your ass so that if something shady really is found later you are insulated. Make sure you keep a copy of the email and while likely not ideal, I would bcc my personal email as well as print a hard copy.

"My suggestion is to make it clear (strongly imply, without directly stating) that you will whistle-blow if you remain on probation or are otherwise mistreated."

Makes it look like extortion. That's not going to help.

And when the feds bust the company for felony non-compliance you do not want to be the fall guy for everything illegal your former employer ever did, including the stuff you haven't figured out yet. The first thing to do once the former employer is officially former is talk to your lawyer, the second thing to do is with your lawyers advice and help is document the false reports with the feds. You don't want to get arrested at your new job six months later because the feds finally came down on your former employer for the false reports and they set you up to take all the blame.

I've seen a similar thing happen to several friends and family in recent years. Even if your employer is generally a decent place to work, you can wind up with an immediate line manager who is hostile. This might be through no fault of your own, for example if the manager isn't actually very good themselves and so wants to put together a compliant team so they can take credit for the efforts of others. Keeping around competent but independent types who know what they're doing and might challenge the manager when they make bad calls is a threat to these people.

It seems that such managers often do get called out eventually, particularly if they have a pattern of mistreating their immediate subordinates and start to show abnormally high numbers of complaints or people within their team moving on. Sadly, by the time that happens, it is usually too late for any of their immediate subordinates whom they have already started to victimise. They always know the formal procedures better than you do, because this kind of person builds their whole career around playing the game to their own advantage. Starting the disciplinary process on dubious grounds before the subordinate can start a formal grievance procedure is straight out of their playbook.

So my advice would be along similar lines to fsk's: work on the basis that this job is over, look to the future, but don't burn any bridges unnecessarily with the current employer or anyone else who works there.

In addition, if you are one of the victims here but have generally done a decent job and got along with people other than the problem manager, you have probably earned some respect from other people senior to you in the organisation. They might be peers of your manager, whose teams you have worked with along the way with good results. They might be people higher up in your own management chain, who have seen good results prior to the hostile manager taking over (and may have their own concerns about that manager, though if they're professional they probably won't give you any hint of this, they'll only discuss any concerns you raise yourself).

These people may be able to give you a useful reference in their official capacity, so you don't need to rely on the current line manager when applying for new jobs. If company policy forbids that, for example because the only permitted official references come from HR and just confirm dates of employment, then perhaps your contacts can at least give you a positive comment on LinkedIn or some other sort of constructive but unofficial endorsement.

Also, keep records of everything you legally and practically can. Remember that anything stored on company machines (particularly things like e-mails or any internal performance reviews) can be cut off at the employer's whim, and probably will be cut off without notice the moment the official firing process starts, so if you can get a copy that is under your own control, that is to your advantage. Also make written notes immediately of what was said in any in-person conversions or phone calls that might be relevant to your situation, such as the exact words used that you took to imply the 30 day review was being treated as a formality.

You don't necessarily have to ever use any of this stuff. My instinct personally is to fight these kinds of injustice, but as fsk said, that's often a lot of stress with little real upside, and literally everyone I know who has actually been in this position hasn't felt it was worth it. However, if your soon-to-be-former employer tries to come after you thanks to your manager's efforts, or more importantly if once you're gone they try to blame you for any actually illegal things that might have happened, then you want to have a mountain of evidence of the way they have tried to force you out and/or cover things up, and the fact that your own work wasn't to blame and you tried to act reasonably and do the right thing when you became aware of a problem. In short, you can be discreet about it, but always look out for number one in these situations.

And finally, keep your chin up. This kind of situation is right up there with hassle moving house or relationship problems in terms of stress and how all-encompassing it can feel, but always remember that the kind of hostile middle manager who causes these problems rarely has nearly as much influence as they like to think they do outside their own little empire. Chances are no-one is really able to give you a black mark across your whole industry or city just because of this, particularly if you can follow the advice above to get favourable endorsements from other senior people and keep a clear record to show that you weren't really the troublemaker. In any case, it's a good idea to reach out to friends and family who aren't involved for support, so your life doesn't become all about this over the next few weeks or months.

Good luck.

If your firm did indeed commit a unlawful offence, you should call them out on it.

Your career at this firm is over either way.

Last thing you want to do is to be dragged back in when their offence is revealed and they use you as a scapegoat.

Be on the offensive.