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Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

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Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#91
post #13

I quit my job for a year and did this with my wife. We didn't work while traveling -- it would have been too hard / distracting. This might sound odd, but traveling takes as much time as a real job -- the amount you spend just figuring out where to go next and what to do is significant. If you want to work while travel then your best bet is to taking a break from travel and live somewhere for a little while. It's not…

> don't plan ahead

Don't take this too far though. Otherwise you might end up at some dude's house in Kilkenny trying to determine if he's going to let you crash in on couch or if he wants you to sleep in his bed. Or you might end up walking from Juno to Omaha beach hoping that you can hitch a ride with some Canadians back to Caen.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#92
post #41

Strange how all the stories here are positive & cheerful. I did the very thing two years ago, mostly due to peer pressure and reading too much HN, and it was a disaster. I didn't meet any interesting people, had no exciting adventures, tasted no great food, had no job opportunities, and pretty much only existed, lived in crappy hostels, drank bland coffee and burned all my cash reserves. I came back tired, broke, lon…

> it's not for everyone.

True, it's heavily dependent on whether that person is into 'adventuring', i.e. enjoys stepping out of their comfort zone, enjoys changing up their lifestyle, and seeks out those challenges.

I have had a blast, met up with developers in the cities I stayed in, advanced my career by finishing projects for my portfolio (also worked remotely), went on constant dates via online dating in the local countries (many of which turned into at least people to hang out with), and just overall made many new friends, locals and xpats alike who I still keep in touch with, not to mention cultural immersion which broadens minds (depends on the country you pick). I've done this in major cities in South America, Spain, Japan, China, and Vietnam. 3 months abroad, 9 months at home, repeat.

People should read your post and assess what kind of person they are, but I would be afraid that you might discourage people who would succeed in having an incredible experience. Your response seems like a lot was your personality and hangups which got in the way - and you are right, it won't just automatically work for everyone, it takes a type of person.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#93
Don't work illegally. It may seem easy (and is) but you never know the nightmare it can unleash.

Travel is what you make it. You can travel without moving - interact with different people locally. You can travel by changing career. It is simply a process of changing environment. Join a hiking group, a cooking club, even learn a new skill, 'push your bubble' - that is travel.

Travel the world... Take the decision carefully, but if travelling physically it is easy to not travel. Everywhere has a Starbucks to grab a coffee, apart from the places that don't, but if travelling to places that don't, is choice made simply because they don't have Starbucks and if that is in the decision chain, when why not travel to somewhere that does and not go to Starbucks? Is 9 months backpacking 'travel' when it is done with a group of similarly minded people with a half-hearted effort to learn a language?

Home is where the heart is. If you feel your heart is somewhere else, then travel to find it, it is simply a change in lifestyle, physical travel is often the opposite - a preservation of lifestyle in different conditions; without recognizing that, no change is gained.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#94
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can talk about this for hours. Please do! Is your blog still up?

Yes, in my profile.

Fascinating, you've done an absolutely amazing job at not just your travel but also your 'inner journey' about how the travelling changed you. Thank you!

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#95
post #93

Don't work illegally. It may seem easy (and is) but you never know the nightmare it can unleash. Travel is what you make it. You can travel without moving - interact with different people locally. You can travel by changing career. It is simply a process of changing environment. Join a hiking group, a cooking club, even learn a new skill, 'push your bubble' - that is travel. Travel the world... Take the decision care…

This isn't terribly profound, but I think I just like to read books in different places.

I enjoy it; it feels satisfying. The volume on that seems to edge up when I'm in a really different location, like another country.

That's not a counterpoint to what you said. It's just what hit me, and I thought it was funny.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#96
post #13

I quit my job for a year and did this with my wife. We didn't work while traveling -- it would have been too hard / distracting. This might sound odd, but traveling takes as much time as a real job -- the amount you spend just figuring out where to go next and what to do is significant. If you want to work while travel then your best bet is to taking a break from travel and live somewhere for a little while. It's not…

> don't plan ahead Don't take this too far though. Otherwise you might end up at some dude's house in Kilkenny trying to determine if he's going to let you crash in on couch or if he wants you to sleep in his bed. Or you might end up walking from Juno to Omaha beach hoping that you can hitch a ride with some Canadians back to Caen.

Second one sounds awesome. I hitchhiked with two German girls back to Jerusalem from the dead sea in some Russian dude's car. Fascinating guy. Highlight of the trip. YDIMA (your disaster is my adventure)

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#97
Wow, I got my first "That comment was too long". Okay, I'm breaking this into two replies because it's just too good to not put here.

I ended up getting a better job overseas (paid to research and code what I want). And then I quit that and ended up getting an even better opportunity after travelling again, and after a fun period interning at a magazine, then making investment banker money for building an ecommerce site.

I think the more glibly you express it, ("Quit your job! Travel the world!" would have to be one of the more concise expressions) the more possible meanings that statement can encode, so the more open it is to interpretation.

I think the essence of being successful doing that (by essence I mean one main cause and requirement) is simply the willingness to leave one opportunity to find a better one.

From a thermodynamic viewpoint, the more you raise your energy (unbound state), the more possible energy states you can access. The more "stable" things are, the less energy states (read possibilities) you will access.

From an "multivariate optimization" perspective (how you maximize your utility over a couple of metrics relevant to you with the space of possibilities some kind of undulating surface) you are searching the landscape of possibilities, the willingness to "pivot" off a local maxima and begin searching again is a strategy that makes finding higher peaks possible.

Diving deeper, heuristically the landscape is large (there are many possible configurations of your axes of utility, i.e, many possible situations), and also mostly self-similar (because there are certain rules which operate in the world which cycle and combine to produce familiar patterns, for example, human psychology, means that, broadly, people's reactions to a given situation will mostly be the same across cultures, and their motivations will be similar as well, such as in aggregate people are motivated by their fears (of not having enough, of shame) and by their ego (competing with other egos), and by their culture (social norms, shared history and cultural identity), and by what the narrative they choose for themselves (hero, victim, "normal", "outcast", "individual" roughly corresponding to high school film tropes, thou becoming more multifaceted and specialised with age -- people become niche experts at being who they are, is another way of saying habits become ingrained). So these personal identities and cultural identities drive people, and these identities are shaped by forces uniform across the world, and people drive the world, so the world, in most ways you look, is essentially the same. It is also very very different, yet the difference is obvious. The sameness merits mention because it is one of those "hacks" that is not always inherently obvious, and even when it is, there's a lot of depth to the self-similar characters of different places, and a lot of utility to be gained by learning about what's similar wherever you are.

So back to the "optimization" analogy, if we are walking a landscape that has two characteristics, it's large and mostly uniform, there are some consequences suggested by these observations. If I'm on a local peak in a large landscape (i.e, I have one a many possible jobs in many possible places), and that landscape is mostly uniform, then there's probably a lot of other peaks even a far way away.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#98

Wow, I got my first "That comment was too long". Okay, I'm breaking this into two replies because it's just too good to not put here. I ended up getting a better job overseas (paid to research and code what I want). And then I quit that and ended up getting an even better opportunity after travelling again, and after a fun period interning at a magazine, then making investment banker money for building an ecommerce s…

continuing

It's like the universe at galactic scale: broadly the same in all directions as far as you look.

And if I'm on this one peak of many peaks, then if I go off searching, it's likely I'll find other peaks comparable to where I was. So the first unintuitive result is that search is likely to produce comparably stable conditions, instead of the "shattering fear and chaos" which may be feared to result from leaving a local peak.

The second result is based on the following observation: the peaks are distributed across a range of heights that's modelled well by a bell curve (based on subjective metrics of personal utility). The very small and the very large peaks are rare. This has a number of relevant consequences. Firstly, it's roughly as hard to fall off the cliff and into chaos as it is to ascend to the heights of huge success, which reinforces our first unintuitive result that search mostly preserves the equilibrium. Because comparable conditions are the most common, you're more likely to keep finding them than anything distressingly (or delightfully) too different.

The second relevant consequence for our discussion of optimization of your lifepeak is because more successful and less successful than you are more rare, it's unlikely where you are starting out in your search is anything close to a global optima. In fact it's overwhelming more likely it's just a normal peak, no matter what narratives you attach to it (like the story I told above, as good as that sounds, it's still overhwlemingly likely that's mostly normal). The great thing about this is there's a whole bunch of peaks out there that are better than where we currently are. And we give can find them if we try. We give ourselves a chance to find them only if we try.

The other great thing about looking for higher peaks is, and this is similar to the argument about why you should only focus on the biggest problems, that great peaks are mostly unoccupied. The higher the peak is, the less life is up there, because it's themodynamically harder to reach it.

And thermodynamics applies everywhere. Well, everywhere that matters for optimizing your life peak. I.e, it's unlikely you'll want to be on the edge of our knowledge inside the event horizon of a black hole. But personal utility is subjective, so...Maybe that works for you.

These two unintuitive results, first, that by searching you are more likely to find comparable conditions than worse or better ones, and second, that where you are is unlikely to be the best and there are other better ones out there that have paths untrod and are unoccupied, (peaks that are waiting just for you), provide a compelling reason for us to search from where we are.

And if you lay breadcrumbs, you might even be able to trek your way back.

This "existence proof" of a better life waiting over the horizon of travel, is not constructive.

It doesn't actually tell us how to produce such a better life.

Tho, strangely, these results do offer some heuristic algorithms for search.

1. Because where you are is unlikely to be the best, you are better off pivoting if you are desiring a higher utility co-ordinate for yourself. And you don't even have to worry about "am I up to this" because you were "up to it" to find your current peak, and given the relevant characteristics of the landscape (uniformity and scale), this means you are up to it to stumble, however hopelessly you may feel you stumble, upon comparable conditions elsewhere! If however, you have your heart set on "better conditions" then the corollary of this is that, while travel may "open your eyes" to lower energy paths through the landscape, the Universal Rules, uniformity and scale, mean that you will need a similar additional quantum of energy to raise your peak abroad as you will at home.

Let that sink in. It's actually not going to be any easier, thermodynamically speaking in the aggregate, to get your life peak better if you travel far away than if you don't. Because this is a law of aggregate statistics it goes hand in hand with all its individuated exceptions, and it still operates: broadly speaking, you've just as much chance of finding a higher peak in your neighbourhood than across the globe.

This unintuitive result has other nice corollaries in that it's not really easier to make it if you're overseas than if you're at home, contrary to the sometimes myth that it is, a result which you can contribute as a reason to variously stay or to go, as you please.

So returning to our second algorithm heuristic for lifepeak search, it works to start by realizing that there will be additional energy requirements to improve your life, wherever you are.

Now, this is where it gets really interesting.

Someone has said that perspective is 80 IQ points. That simply presenting something from a perspective that works has huge utility in itself. Perspective is a super power. You can enhance or limit your inherent abilities with your choice of perspective.

In chemistry, we call this a catalyst. Perspective lowers the barrier of entry to different achievements, making it easier to unlock higher lifepeaks. Perspective flattens the energy landscape, allowing to see further.

And travel, can give you, perspective.

That's probably one of it's most powerful operations.

And it's not some mythical hand-waving argument that travel gives you perspective just so, it's actually because (cue hand-waving mythical argument) the conceptual lag between the apparent nature of things (their difference) in other places, and their unobvious inherent sameness (the Universal Rules), gives you space. You get mental space where even though you feel you are in a different place, you are actually in inherently the same place, aggregately speaking.

And when you have space you are free to move around.

And being free to move around is freedom to change your perspective. That's the definition of perspective, mental space to move around in. And it's the very appearance of things you find in travel (the apparent difference of which hides their inherent sameness), it's the very lag before you catch up to that, before you learn that patterns, which gives you that mental space to gain perspective to flatten the energy landscape to trek your way to that new, higher, peak.

So being in the unknown is not mythically just better for you, it actually works by this mechanism to make it easier for you.

It's still going to take more energy to get to a higher peak, though maybe you're new found perspective has made that energy requirement less than it otherwise would have been, for you, and because you've learned something (by not yet learning how similar things really are) it is easier for you to go to that new higher life peak.

Time here to offer a word of caution. What makes it easier to go up also makes it easier to go down. And many a foreign expat in a faraway land has succumbed to one form of burnout or another. The fresh perspective is not a magical cure all: it's a powerful tool, and it's up to you and your choices what results you produce with that power you chose to give yourself. So if you're thinking travel will solve all your problems, maybe it will, and yet just go cautiously that you have enough resourcefulness and resilience to keep yourself away from the chasms, because even though that landscape flattens now, when it finally straightens out as your learn the inherent sameness, those chasms will seem mighty deep, I imagine, so, buyer beware.

Finally, returning to the search algorithm heurstic suggested by this line of reasoning, we have: keep your eyes open, stay loose and let go, don't try to see the sameness straight away, see the difference, because you're going to catch up anyway and the longer you stay in the unknown the more perspective you have. This is the fourth unintuitive result: spend time in ignorance longer in a new culture, let the difference go to work on you. Learn less language, not more, because being in the dark will keep you on your toes and also keep your perspective fresh, and if you're searching for that higher life peak, and fresher perspective is one of the things which works to have in your toolchain.

Now these two heuristic search algorithms we've presented:

1. Pivot. Just go 2. Stay loose. Stay dumb,

(which conveniently seem to encode rigorously the very hippy traveler aesthetic practised by the most seasoned nomads and incurable wanderers -- likely hooked on the perspective high),

neither of these, guarantee you'll find higher peaks, what you get is up to you. And maybe you'll create your own algorithms to optimize your travel experience, or even to find higher peaks in your neighbourhood. That would be awesome. Heed the general principles above is likely a place to start with that works.

And, finally, something must be said to address this question.

What if you search and you find that you were at the apex already?

Sit up there and have a cup of tea? Gaze down superiously at your surrounding kingdom and minions?

Or maybe you got to ask yourself, if you wanted to leave what was the Everest in that landscape, maybe you're in the wrong space?

So, the remedy for that is ... more travelling to gain clarity for what kind of space might work better for you.

Peace out.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#99
post #17

Best decision of my whole life so far. It requires attaining an incredible amount of humility, selling everything, even that couch you like. You probably won't be back and storage costs a fortune, basically get rid of all of your material possessions. That's really by far the hardest part then take the smallest amount with you that you can. And... suddenly, life seems brighter. I left north america probably 5 years a…

Right on. I'm just now unpacking the stuff I packed up ten years ago before traveling the world. I wish I had gotten rid of everything but the mementos back then. Few things will have value after a year, three, or ten.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#100
At the end of 2007 I quit my job as the CTO of an online porn company, bought a new motorcycle, and rode south. I kept a pretty detailed blog:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305107

It went great. I thought I would be gone six months but it ended up being just shy of a year. It gave me all the adventure I had hoped for and more - new friends, beautiful locations rarely seen by tourists, love affairs, very difficult situations, even a fair amount of genuine heart-pounding danger (jumping out of a moving cab at gunpoint; involuntarily evacuated from the Darién by the Panamanian army). I came back feeling tested and proven.

Yeah, I sound like a cliche. But it was really, really good for me.

To your questions: I started out with $100k in the bank. I didn't have a budget; I figured I would come back when I was either bored or felt poor enough. After a year I came back with about half that (including ~$14k on bike+gear, "fully depreciated" by the end of the trip). Honestly though, I burned money left and right; you could easily do the trip on 1/3rd that, especially if you're not an obsessive foodie. I didn't work on the road, other than pondering the question of "what to work on next".

Re-entry was fairly graceful. I spent all the rest of my money working on startup ideas that failed, but also building some opensource software that took off and eventually working that into a consulting business that at least pays the bills. I came back to SF expecting to enjoy a good long stretch as a heartbreaker but almost immediately began a torrid romance with a woman who is now my wife... so while nothing turned out like I expected, I count it as a success.

The trip didn't make me a fundamentally different person, but it did change me. When you can negotiate in broken Spanish to get your broken-down motorcycle pulled out of a goat trail in the rain with an ox-cart, most of the annoying hurdles that modern life throws at you feel pretty mild and tractable. Not much gets me worked up anymore.

My advice for novices considering extended world travel:

* Stick to the cheap but tourist-friendly parts. Latin America, Southeast Asia, India, Turkey.

* Travel by unusual modes. Motorcycle is great. Bicycle is better. On foot is even better. My wife and I spent two months walking the Camino de Santiago across Spain a year ago and it was the best trip of my life to date. The slower you go, the more people you meet and the more detail you get to see. Travel by bus or train is the worst - you can't even stop when you see something interesting. Although, amusingly, there's a contrary problem on foot - you have to make hard decisions about points of interest that are just a mile off track.

* Depth is better than breadth. Spend more time in fewer places. You can always take more trips.

* Take language lessons. It's a good way to spend a week somewhere and you'll often make friends.

* Do remote consulting, if you can. It not only brings money but gives you an excuse to stay in one place for stretches at a time. I wish I had my current contact network in 2008; I might still be out there.

* Assuming you are in technology and at least competent, don't worry about finding a job when you get back. Don't wait until your bank account is about to run dry, but also don't fret about it. Softwarewise, not that much really changes in a year. And when it does, it's usually not a good idea to be on the bleeding edge anyways.

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