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Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

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Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#21

Post by catshirt »

eevilspock wrote: post #11

What stood out for me was I didn't notice a single woman out of the hundreds of people shown in this video. And with a few exceptions they were all white. I very much want to know the attitudes of all those white men toward women and non-whites.

you have to remember how hardcore started. it's almost a working class movement. in NYC in the 80s, this was mostly composed of white males. there are a few notable exceptions, like HR from Bad Brains (one of the first legendary hardcore front men, who is Jamaican).

the scene has definitely become more diverse. non-whites and females are more well represented in hardcore than they are in the software industry.

that all said, racism and sexism have basically always been unacceptable in the hardcore community, and blatant racist or sexist behavior at a show would, for better or worse, probably result in having the shit kicked out of you. not that i condone violence, but there are few places in the world where discrimination is so actively discouraged.

there are racist subdivisions and bands, but they are basically considered the Westboro Baptist Church of hardcore.

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#22

Post by catshirt »

i had the pleasure of playing CBGB before it closed, and ABC No Rio before i stopped playing out. i've opened or headlined for a few bands in the documentary as well.

i mostly just want to brag, it is very rare my interests intersect like this. so i'll try to add some value: there is something we can all learn about community from the hardcore scene. regardless of how large it grows or how transient members can be, it is self policing of it's values which remain unchanged for probably 40 years now. it remains original and pure in a way that HN couldn't dream of.

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#23

Post by metaobject »

ilamont wrote: post #9

I used to listen to hardcore in the 80s and went to a lot of shows in Boston and a few in the NY area too. One of the interesting aspects of the scenes is they were really local (which led to intense and sometimes violent rivalries) and highly dependent on word of mouth, fanzines, and pre-Web distribution channels such as college radio, clubs, and special record stores. I always wondered what happened to the people.…

Maybe it's just observer bias, but it seems to me that the kids I used to hang out with when I'd go to hardcore shows in DC in the 80s and early 90s were some of the most creative and smartest kids I met. A lot of them went into software development (CS, CE, EE degrees) or some sort of visual arts career. There's something motivational about the music.

I still listen to old bad brains, cro-mags, youth of today, warzone, etc when I need to bang out some code (not really for when I have to design something, though). Overall, it's a really positive scene. I feel that a lot of people don't really get that, though.

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#24

Post by metaobject »

catshirt wrote: post #22

i had the pleasure of playing CBGB before it closed, and ABC No Rio before i stopped playing out. i've opened or headlined for a few bands in the documentary as well. i mostly just want to brag, it is very rare my interests intersect like this. so i'll try to add some value: there is something we can all learn about community from the hardcore scene. regardless of how large it grows or how transient members can be, i…

Would you want to say which band you played in?

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#25

Post by metaobject »

santaclaus wrote: post #20
careersuicide wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Judge show in Austin at The Mohawk during Fun Fun Fun Fest 2013 was one of the best things I've ever seen. It was inside, so in a room that's about 20 feet by 25 feet, with a 2.5 foot stage. Completely packed with people. As soon as they started playing it immediately turned into one of those rare "mosh to survive" situations. If you're standing still you're probably not going to leave without getting seriously h…

I think the first hardcore show I saw was an all ages show headlined by Converge when I was 16 or 17, right when they dropped their Jane Doe album. It was total insanity -- kids were hanging off the rafters in the venue and falling 10 feet into the pit, feet first stage diving so people were getting drop kicked, at one point the bouncers tried to stop kids from jumping on stage and formed a wall up front, which resul…

Maybe it's because I'm old and not used to that sort of moshing, but that just doesn't sound enjoyable. Back in the day (get off my lawn!), the pit was a strange mix between violence and friendliness. If someone fell, they'd immediately get picked up. If someone was getting pummeled, they'd get carried out of the pit. Stage dives were fun for the diver and crowd.

Sorry to sound like an old man, but I just don't understand this latest version of moshing. Maybe I need to go to one of these shows and get in the pit to see if I'm missing something (blow off some steam).

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#26

Post by catshirt »

metaobject wrote: post #24
catshirt wrote: post #22

i had the pleasure of playing CBGB before it closed, and ABC No Rio before i stopped playing out. i've opened or headlined for a few bands in the documentary as well. i mostly just want to brag, it is very rare my interests intersect like this. so i'll try to add some value: there is something we can all learn about community from the hardcore scene. regardless of how large it grows or how transient members can be, i…

Would you want to say which band you played in?

i played in "The Banner" and "Pellinore". neither is a staple of the New York Hardcore scene, but I'd like to think anyone involved in the NJ/NY scene from 2004-2012 is probably familiar. both are on Spotify, if you care to listen. :)

this is obviously kind of new school with respect to the documentary, but they feature some newer bands so I thought it was fair game. :)

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#27

Post by careersuicide »

metaobject wrote: post #25
santaclaus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the first hardcore show I saw was an all ages show headlined by Converge when I was 16 or 17, right when they dropped their Jane Doe album. It was total insanity -- kids were hanging off the rafters in the venue and falling 10 feet into the pit, feet first stage diving so people were getting drop kicked, at one point the bouncers tried to stop kids from jumping on stage and formed a wall up front, which resul…

Maybe it's because I'm old and not used to that sort of moshing, but that just doesn't sound enjoyable. Back in the day (get off my lawn!), the pit was a strange mix between violence and friendliness. If someone fell, they'd immediately get picked up. If someone was getting pummeled, they'd get carried out of the pit. Stage dives were fun for the diver and crowd. Sorry to sound like an old man, but I just don't under…

If I'm honest with myself, part of what really attracted me to hardcore punk as a teenager was the risk of violence at shows. It's rare that anyone gets seriously injured, but there's almost always this sense of tension and looming chaos. I'm a couple of months away from being 30 now. I still go to shows on a regular basis and that's still part of the appeal.

It's exactly like you said, "a strange mix between violence and friendliness". I'm usually friends with nearly every single person in the room but much of what happens would constitute assault in any other context. People still pick each other up when they fall, even that person just punched them in the back of the head. I suspect you'd find very little has actually changed.

On a semi-tangential note: It's always so amusing trying to explain this sort of thing to someone who has never been a part of punk. Another commenter in this thread said that it's self regulating. And that's what so many people don't get. There are rules. Unspoken ones, but they are there. Everyone in the room knows when something is actually out of hand. It may look like total mayhem at times to the untrained eye but if you've been around long enough you see the same sort of organic patterns of behavior at every show. Sometimes I'm inclined to think you've never really connected with others until you've been to a punk show with a hundred other like minded people crammed into a tiny dim smelly space with terrible music playing as loud as the speakers will allow, all the while loving every moment.

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#28

Post by nate_meurer »

metaobject wrote: post #23
ilamont wrote: post #9

I used to listen to hardcore in the 80s and went to a lot of shows in Boston and a few in the NY area too. One of the interesting aspects of the scenes is they were really local (which led to intense and sometimes violent rivalries) and highly dependent on word of mouth, fanzines, and pre-Web distribution channels such as college radio, clubs, and special record stores. I always wondered what happened to the people.…

Maybe it's just observer bias, but it seems to me that the kids I used to hang out with when I'd go to hardcore shows in DC in the 80s and early 90s were some of the most creative and smartest kids I met. A lot of them went into software development (CS, CE, EE degrees) or some sort of visual arts career. There's something motivational about the music. I still listen to old bad brains, cro-mags, youth of today, warzo…

Absolutely. People who aren't going to be interested anyway often don't look past the names. E.g., Hatebreed, one of the most relentlessly positive and inclusive bands out there. And Jamie Jasta is the very definition of DIY.

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#29

Post by metaobject »

careersuicide wrote: post #27
metaobject wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's because I'm old and not used to that sort of moshing, but that just doesn't sound enjoyable. Back in the day (get off my lawn!), the pit was a strange mix between violence and friendliness. If someone fell, they'd immediately get picked up. If someone was getting pummeled, they'd get carried out of the pit. Stage dives were fun for the diver and crowd. Sorry to sound like an old man, but I just don't under…

If I'm honest with myself, part of what really attracted me to hardcore punk as a teenager was the risk of violence at shows. It's rare that anyone gets seriously injured, but there's almost always this sense of tension and looming chaos. I'm a couple of months away from being 30 now. I still go to shows on a regular basis and that's still part of the appeal. It's exactly like you said, "a strange mix between violenc…

Great comment. Thanks for taking the time to reply. It sounds like, although it may be a bit more violent then in my days, it's still the mix of violence and friendliness. This makes me happy. That's what will keep the HC scene going into the future.

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#30

Post by vogt »

catshirt wrote: post #26
metaobject wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you want to say which band you played in?

i played in "The Banner" and "Pellinore". neither is a staple of the New York Hardcore scene, but I'd like to think anyone involved in the NJ/NY scene from 2004-2012 is probably familiar. both are on Spotify, if you care to listen. :) this is obviously kind of new school with respect to the documentary, but they feature some newer bands so I thought it was fair game. :)

Gosh, I used to love The Banner. I can't believe this thread is seriously happening on Hacker News but it's amazing.

I was at this show with Shai Hulud (all time favorite status) at ABC No Rio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_52HtykF1gs.

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