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Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

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Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#12

What stood out for me was I didn't notice a single woman out of the hundreds of people shown in this video. And with a few exceptions they were all white. I very much want to know the attitudes of all those white men toward women and non-whites.

There are in fact plenty of hardcore bands from past and present with non-white/female/lgbt members. Bad Brains, Limpwrist, The Comes... Of course there are some openly anti-female/non-white/lgbt bands, but they're by no means the norm. My experience in punk and hardcore was defined by the open and accepting nature of the people in the scene. Our local venue's official motto was "NO RACIST, SEXIST, OR HOMOPHOBIC SHIT TOLERATED" (Lucy's Record shop in Nashville)

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Judge show in Austin at The Mohawk during Fun Fun Fun Fest 2013 was one of the best things I've ever seen. It was inside, so in a room that's about 20 feet by 25 feet, with a 2.5 foot stage. Completely packed with people. As soon as they started playing it immediately turned into one of those rare "mosh to survive" situations. If you're standing still you're probably not going to leave without getting seriously h…

My first concert was a band called The Chariot in some cramped bar and when the audience started moving it was like everyone was in sync because you couldn't move without pushing someone and it was one of the best experiences of my life.

Too bad they are no more...

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#15

What stood out for me was I didn't notice a single woman out of the hundreds of people shown in this video. And with a few exceptions they were all white. I very much want to know the attitudes of all those white men toward women and non-whites.

I guess it's kinda like the tech industry, in that way, eh?

But, you're right. Hard core and punk were boys clubs, historically speaking. It took whole separate scenes (riot grrrl, among others) to push those boundaries out to include more diversity. There are now reasonably large feminist hard core and punk scenes, as well as lots of off-shoots. I just caught Sleater-Kinney live a few days ago; they're, I guess they might be called, second generation feminist punks, and they had a huge sold out crowd.

Punk and hard core were also occasionally ambiguous about LGBTQ folks, even though several quite important bands had gay members (Husker Du, The Dicks, Big Boys, etc.) or were vocally supportive of gay rights. Bad Brains, featured in this video, and among the best loved hard core bands in history, had a well-known falling out with MDC over some hateful comments H.R. (singer of Bad Brains) made about Randy "Biscuit" Turner from Big Boys. "Queercore" is now a thing that has a name, and being gay isn't a thing to keep secret in the modern punk and hard core world. I don't know if H.R. is still a homophobic asshole. Some people grow out of that stuff.

I think we can reasonably say that working and middle class white dudes aren't renowned for being inclusive, but some try harder than others. And, of course, one could also argue that part of the reason there are few women or people of color is because this particular art form was born of a very specific experience...and that experience is that of a bunch of young, angry, working and middle class white dudes. Early hip hop scene films feature predominantly young, angry, poor, black dudes, probably for similar reasons.

That said, there are racist/sexist/homophobic hard core bands. There are hard core bands that actively promote white supremacy, various bigoted "Christian" values, etc. The bands featured in this video aren't really among them, however. Even the "skinhead" bands in the film, like Agnostic Front and the Cro-Mags, are of the "non-racist" breed...maybe even anti-racist. I'm not deeply familiar with any of them, so I wouldn't want to make too many sweeping pronouncements about how they feel about racism/sexism/homophobia (except the Bad Brains thing, because that story includes one of my favorite bands/artists as the target of their homophobia, so I'm familiar with that story).

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#16

What stood out for me was I didn't notice a single woman out of the hundreds of people shown in this video. And with a few exceptions they were all white. I very much want to know the attitudes of all those white men toward women and non-whites.

You didn't notice Bad Brains? I can't speak for everyone, but the hardcore scene (at large) never seemed to be particularly racist.

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#17
Anyone interested in both NYHC and HN would be into this if they haven't seen it (I'm sure it's been posted here before): the history of the old Kickstarter office, which is across the street from ABC No Rio, and is also the location of the Rancid "Time Bomb" video.

http://fredbenenson.com/2014/01/19/digital-forensics-rancid-...

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#18

What stood out for me was I didn't notice a single woman out of the hundreds of people shown in this video. And with a few exceptions they were all white. I very much want to know the attitudes of all those white men toward women and non-whites.

Such a complicated question. I think about the (very non-racist) ska skinheads I met in Europe, or Ian MacKaye's song "Guilty of Being White", which had a more nuanced back story than I understood when I first heard of it.

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#19
post #9

I used to listen to hardcore in the 80s and went to a lot of shows in Boston and a few in the NY area too. One of the interesting aspects of the scenes is they were really local (which led to intense and sometimes violent rivalries) and highly dependent on word of mouth, fanzines, and pre-Web distribution channels such as college radio, clubs, and special record stores. I always wondered what happened to the people.…

> It’s totally underground, but that’s OK, too ...

I want as many people to have access to the music as possible, but being underground is kind of a requirement for hardcore music. You don't want it to be an affectation or exclusionary, but hardcore has always been about not fitting in and being on the outside of quotidian society.

Re: Under the Influence: New York Hardcore

#20

If you're a hardcore fan, the series on Judge is good, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eHPIBP5a0Y

The Judge show in Austin at The Mohawk during Fun Fun Fun Fest 2013 was one of the best things I've ever seen. It was inside, so in a room that's about 20 feet by 25 feet, with a 2.5 foot stage. Completely packed with people. As soon as they started playing it immediately turned into one of those rare "mosh to survive" situations. If you're standing still you're probably not going to leave without getting seriously h…

I think the first hardcore show I saw was an all ages show headlined by Converge when I was 16 or 17, right when they dropped their Jane Doe album. It was total insanity -- kids were hanging off the rafters in the venue and falling 10 feet into the pit, feet first stage diving so people were getting drop kicked, at one point the bouncers tried to stop kids from jumping on stage and formed a wall up front, which resulted in a gang of about ten kids tackling them and punching them in the middle of the set. The venue owners pulled the sound and had to call the cops to break up the brawl... needless to say there were no more hardcore shows at the venue, and the local scene quickly fizzled out due to the insanity.
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