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Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh: Adopt Holacracy Or Leave

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Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh: Adopt Holacracy Or Leave

#61

Post by mcginleyr1 »

coldpie wrote: post #31

I've only worked for small companies. My current company has roughly 30 employees. My eyes glazed over during the 2nd paragraph. Is this what it's like when you have a lot of employees to manage? Sending Half-Hour Emails with Capitalized Words I've never heard of? Holacracy? Glass Frog? Teal Organization? Reinventing Organizations? Huh? Just let me do my work, damn.

I actually like the idea of a Holacracy, and you see it in alot of small startups intentionally or not. The generally tend to loose this as they grow. I recently read one of Ricardo Selmer's books on how he used Holacracy at Semco http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Day-Weekend-Changing-Work-Works-... which is a huge multi national company. I highly suggest it.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh: Adopt Holacracy Or Leave

#62

Post by geofft »

briandherbert wrote: post #44

Without more context than the title and the linked email, it's pretty easy to call Hsieh's move brash or tried-and-futile. But the guy is often regarded as the premier management CEO of his generation, and homogenous culture is strongly enforced in his hiring process. Employees love Hsieh because they're (largely) on the same page, not bc of a reality distortion field. After seeing Hsieh's track record and reading "D…

It's not about engineering sensibilities, it's about human sensibilities. So many great leaders in human history have been effective, loved by their followers, good at enforcing a homogeneous culture, and abusive.

http://recode.net/2014/10/01/the-downtown-project-suicides-c...

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh: Adopt Holacracy Or Leave

#63

Post by ultimape »

dandare wrote: post #29
mauricemir wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So informal high school cliques vs a Hierarchy - I can guess what the average outcome will be.

This is my main concern. I have never studied the concept in detail but I don't see how self-organisation addresses any problem.

Self organization, when mirroring a biological system (such as our immune system) can be co-opted by cancers and auto-immune causing pathogens.

No system is perfect.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh: Adopt Holacracy Or Leave

#64

Post by maxxxxx »

talmand wrote: post #52
pesenti wrote: post #28

So does that apply to the CEO as well? Is he going to drop his title?

Not only that, will he take a pay cut like the existing managers will possibly have to do as they explore their new roles in the company?

No problem for him to take a paycut with his equity.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh: Adopt Holacracy Or Leave

#66

Post by scott_s »

bozoclownn wrote: post #18
jcrites wrote: post #3

Similar ideas are expressed in Valve's Corporate Handbook, which describes a company culture where there is no hierarchy, either: https://www.valvesoftware.com/company/Valve_Handbook_LowRes....

There is always a hierarchy. Either it is explicit or it is implicit (which does not mean I'm pro explicit hierarchies)

That's the stance taken in a famous feminist essay from 1970, "The Tyranny of Structurelessness": http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm

HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7409611

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh: Adopt Holacracy Or Leave

#67

Post by rflrob »

geofft wrote: post #62
briandherbert wrote: post #44

Without more context than the title and the linked email, it's pretty easy to call Hsieh's move brash or tried-and-futile. But the guy is often regarded as the premier management CEO of his generation, and homogenous culture is strongly enforced in his hiring process. Employees love Hsieh because they're (largely) on the same page, not bc of a reality distortion field. After seeing Hsieh's track record and reading "D…

It's not about engineering sensibilities, it's about human sensibilities. So many great leaders in human history have been effective, loved by their followers, good at enforcing a homogeneous culture, and abusive. http://recode.net/2014/10/01/the-downtown-project-suicides-c...

I am impressed that the effort to enforce a corporate monoculture (if we want to be uncharitable to Hsieh) has such a humane escape clause—3+ months severance and COBRA is nothing to sneeze at. I would be curious to see if there's any kind of option for bailing later, as a sort of "I've tried it, and now I know it's not for me" option.

Re: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh: Adopt Holacracy Or Leave

#69

Post by a3n »

coldpie wrote: post #31

I've only worked for small companies. My current company has roughly 30 employees. My eyes glazed over during the 2nd paragraph. Is this what it's like when you have a lot of employees to manage? Sending Half-Hour Emails with Capitalized Words I've never heard of? Holacracy? Glass Frog? Teal Organization? Reinventing Organizations? Huh? Just let me do my work, damn.

This is exactly what it's like when you have a lot of money to spend, which is what happens when you have a lot of employees.

The phrases are code words designed to reinforce the cult of whatever program or fad that the employees that operate the corporation (as opposed to producing whatever the corporation produces) use to control the rest of the employees.

This will be seen, among many other contexts, in official and formal employee evaluation processes. There will be "objective" measures, like "does the associate exhibit Glass behaviors? [rate 1 to 5]." "Does the associate promote Teal results, in their own work and the work of others? [rate 1 to 5]."

Yes, this is exactly what it's like in a large corporation. The names of the programs change, and the posters, colors and prayers, but it's all the same.

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