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Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

joshuakalp.in

11–20 of 65 posts

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#11
post #2

I did software coop at UBC, and I can say without a doubt that the coop model is purely an invention of a highly conservative business culture. For those with the skills and the desire, I say skip it. The loss of community with the rest of your class is huge, and the extra time is not worth the money compared to a real post-graduation career. Additionally, most post-college hiring here in the Bay Area, and elsewhere,…

I did the same at UBC and nobody should go in expecting it will be valuable no matter what just by signing up (depends so much on what you end up doing and what you personally enjoy and are good at), but I think there is a lot of value in doing internships before graduating for the experience and knowledge of what is out there. Helps bring more relevance to school work and you get to test out what you may or may not like in a 3-4 month period before having to commit full time.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#13
post #4

I went to a university basically no one here has ever heard of but The engineering program has the same 4 month on/off schedule. I was a CS student and the CS department has a co-op/internship program that is a bit different, its a minimum 8 months and max 16 months continuous which is really nice. Actually helps you get settled in and accomplish something fairly substantial. It also, allows you to organize it in a w…

I went to school at the University of Regina, and did an engineering co-op 5 years ago. It was amazing to see how gradual it makes moving out from home if you go to school in the same city where you grew up.

My work terms were Regina (home) -> Saskatoon (3 hrs away) -> Waterloo (28 hrs away) -> India (really far) and definitely was able to grow in experience each time.

I'd say it was invaluable for learning what was important and what wasn't with respect to the class materials.

Now I'm at Twitter and often look back to the wide experience I gained at companies where I could leave after 4 months and have no negative repercussions.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#14
post #3

4 months seems a bit short for this continuous cycle. I go to Northeastern University and they do 6 month cycles of work/school. They also start off with a year and a half to two years of classes on a traditional schedule when you first enroll in college. This seems less relentless than the 4 month schedule described at Waterloo.

At Guelph, we do two full years of academics and a summer off before any co-op work term (so we have one less work term overall), and have two 8-month work terms and a 4-month as part of our schedule[1]. I think that's a much more workable schedule, and I think Waterloo even has a similar scheduling option in terms of term duration (at least for CS) as I've worked with a student from there for the same 8-months. As long as you stay with the same employer for 8-months (many seem willing if you ask) or the same town for both placements, it works out fairly well.

[1]: https://www.uoguelph.ca/registrar/calendars/undergraduate/cu...

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#15
A recent Waterloo grad myself, this goes against what I've heard from my peer group. (Most consider it to be a blessing alone) I also think many of the downsides listed in this article have little to do with co-op.

Here's a summary of my pros and cons.

Pros:

- Work experience (2 years)

- Travel (Within Canada, the US and even Europe if you're up for it)

- Money. Far more than we probably deserved at that age.

- Ease of mind regarding future employment. (Speak to any peers who haven't interned or gained any work experience)

- Break from school every four months.

- Break from work every four months.

Cons:

- Travelling can be annoying.

- New cities can be lonely. (I spent a term in Ottawa where I knew literally no-one)

- No summer break.

Other:

- The issues with deadlines and stress mentioned in the article are not related to co-op.

- The issues with stressful work terms are not related to co-op. It will likely be the same once you begin your fulltime work.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#16
post #9
post #3

4 months seems a bit short for this continuous cycle. I go to Northeastern University and they do 6 month cycles of work/school. They also start off with a year and a half to two years of classes on a traditional schedule when you first enroll in college. This seems less relentless than the 4 month schedule described at Waterloo.

I think you're forgetting that a 4 month cycle allows you to do more internships than a 6 month cycle.

However a 6 month cycle allows you to gain a better idea of what it is like to be a full time employee at a company, not merely an intern.

I did several 6 month cycles, but most of the other interns I worked with at these companies were doing 4 month cycles (in fact, they were almost all from Waterloo. That experience has given me an immense respect for that school.)

With 4 month internships, many companies give you an "intern project" that you see through to completion. It tests not just your technical capabilities but also your ability to plan and manage a project yourself. Great experience, and a great way for a company to test your skills and abilities. 6 months is a bit long for a single project meant primarily for one person though, so they throw you into the standard drudgery of full-time employment. Less pleasant, less sterilized and organized, but much more realistic.

At least that is how it played out at the companies I worked for.

Unless you are from a wealthy family (or live in one of those fancy progressive nations where higher education is free), chances are you will need to figure out a way to leverage your experiences in university for money. I think that either a 6-month or 4-month cycle of internships/coops is one of the best ways to prepare yourself for this. There are pros and cons to either, but both are pretty great.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#17
Co-op was a weirdly disorienting time for a lot of reasons, but I've done hundreds of interviews at PagerDuty, and UW co-ops are a lot better for it. I strongly prefer to hire them (Hiring! SF! Toronto! Yay! http://l.euri.ca/1Htzmav ).

Working at 3+ places for 4-8 months isn't a perfect substitute for years of experience, but it's a huge improvement over school projects.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#18
post #15

A recent Waterloo grad myself, this goes against what I've heard from my peer group. (Most consider it to be a blessing alone) I also think many of the downsides listed in this article have little to do with co-op. Here's a summary of my pros and cons. Pros: - Work experience (2 years) - Travel (Within Canada, the US and even Europe if you're up for it) - Money. Far more than we probably deserved at that age. - Ease…

I think you've taken my words at being solely towards co-op, not a co-op program itself. Deadlines, school, and stress are part of being in a co-op program. Having a stressful work term, that is when you are supposed to be on break from school, is part of being in a co-op program.

It's hard, some handle it better than others, but it's naive to say that the downsides are trivial and have little to do with being in a co-op program.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#19
post #2

I did software coop at UBC, and I can say without a doubt that the coop model is purely an invention of a highly conservative business culture. For those with the skills and the desire, I say skip it. The loss of community with the rest of your class is huge, and the extra time is not worth the money compared to a real post-graduation career. Additionally, most post-college hiring here in the Bay Area, and elsewhere,…

I too am from UBC and did 6 terms of coop...in Waterloo (guess which company) .

From what I observe, their coop model is completely different from UBC's. The 2 are completely different in nature.

From speaking to Waterloo students, it is obvious to me that the point of coop is to cram as much real life experience into the students in as little time as possible. Note that I say real life experience, not work experience. Many students have to sublease, go to a new work for 4 months, move back to Waterloo, lease from another student who is going to work, go to school for another 4 months, and repeat the whole cycle. This is a very hectic schedule. If you ask me, the point of this is indeed to keep you from being grounded, and not to be complacent in your place.

Another real life experience you gain is you know _a lot_ of potential employers. Most students I know had at least 4 supervisors they can contact after they graduated. This creates a very interesting dynamic where many students are not that concern about future employments because they know they will get hire by someone.

A very interesting situation I noticed is that class knowledge are quickly put into use. For example, in the previous 4 months the students would learn basic data structures (in C++ ! Not with Java like in UBC), then the next month they have to apply what they just learned in a professional environment. I would say say that this is actually good for learning as the knowledge is fresh in these students' heads, and they have all the real programmers to help them out if they don't understand something.

Of course, many students don't care about coop and just get though the 4 months. During my time there I saw many job postings in University of Waterloo's coop site that are plain bullshit. This is understandable though as really, no coop supervisors I talked to really expect U of W coop students to be very useful (at least not that useful with only 4 months worth of work term!)

Their engineering curriculum is much accelerated compared to UBC's. Stuff that are taught in UBC 300 classes are considered 200 classes in U of Waterloo. As I set though their classes, I was pretty impressed at the students' ability to retain what they learn, with all the switching between work and school. Many UBC engineering/comp science students I know would be hard pressed to maintain their grade.

Most students I talked to are fine with the hectic schedule. These students knew what they were getting into when they entered. Those who don't are washed out quickly.

In comparison, UBC coop seems to expect you to actually learn technical knowledge from the coop. This is a more traditional model where you spend 8 months with your head under water, then you can go back to the academia world of UBC and digest what you've experienced (and maybe alter your graduation goal). U of W requires its students to do this every 4 months. Continuous for 3 years. Maybe you like bioengineering? Do a 4 months coop and find out you hate it. Then try a financial engineering firm next. Don't like it either? Well try a different engineering firm next coop term.

Looking back, I sort of agree that UBC coop can be of less value compare to U of W's, but that's only because they have different aims.

PS. U of W's computer science coop _is_ optional. I only know 1 person who opts out of it, however.

PS2. I don't know if you know, but U of W's tuition is almost 2x as much as UBC. Coop is a good way to pay it off :) And many students see coop as such.

PS3. Thank god there's Wilfrid Laurier University 900m away from U of W. Now that's a party school with all the 'happenings' and art students.

Re: Waterloo Co-op: A Blessing and a Curse

#20
post #10
post #2

I did software coop at UBC, and I can say without a doubt that the coop model is purely an invention of a highly conservative business culture. For those with the skills and the desire, I say skip it. The loss of community with the rest of your class is huge, and the extra time is not worth the money compared to a real post-graduation career. Additionally, most post-college hiring here in the Bay Area, and elsewhere,…

Loss of community with the rest of your class? At Waterloo co-op in engineering is not optional. Your entire class is on the same 4-month school-workterm-school schedule.

Not in other faculties, though. The BMath/CS program for example.
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