The Slow Death of the University • Hacker News Board

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#11

Post by nostrademons » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 8:09 PM UTC

DanAndersen wrote: post #6

Shyis wrote: post #3

This is only mildly related to the article, but does anyone else have difficulty imagining what others' jobs are? For example, I'm just young enough to remember a time when I thought a programmer was someone who hid in a closet to slam at a keyboard for nine hours a day, but that notion was only corrected by entering the workforce. What about my other misconceptions? There's no way to learn about all of them firsthan…

I understand your thinking here. Maybe we need something like Dirty Jobs but for non-dirty jobs too.

My last startup did something like that - we interviewed close to a hundred people to figure out what they really did in their jobs. It was targeted towards undergrads, as a form of career guidance, but it turns out to be very hard to get people to pay attention to career guidance that doesn't directly lead to getting a job. We also tried refocusing toward older young professionals (late-20s), but that had the same problem: it's much easier to sell a service that's task-focused than one that's discovery-focused.

My sense is that there's probably not a viable business there but it may make an interesting hobby blog-series, if you can get people to participate.

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#12

Post by mathattack » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 8:11 PM UTC

I wonder if this death of criticism is misty eyed nastolgia for a future that either never, or rarely existed.

Let's not forget that our so-called great universities:

- For a long time excluded women, Jews and many minorities.

- Were the providence of only the technocratic elite.

- Did very little research before the 20th century.

And now that the costs escalate out of control, is it any wonder that they have to go more commercial?

Some back of the envelope math: If every student takes 10 classes a year (5 per semester) and every professor teaches 5 classes per year to 20 students each, and gets paid 100K all-in, then the per-student faculty labor cost is 100K10/(205) = 10K per year. That's not too bad for critical learning. Expand the classes to 40 and you can cut the cost in half, or give the faculty a big raise.

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#13

Post by nostrademons » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 8:12 PM UTC

Shyis wrote: post #3

This is only mildly related to the article, but does anyone else have difficulty imagining what others' jobs are? For example, I'm just young enough to remember a time when I thought a programmer was someone who hid in a closet to slam at a keyboard for nine hours a day, but that notion was only corrected by entering the workforce. What about my other misconceptions? There's no way to learn about all of them firsthan…

Lawyers are probably a big one. Most people think they spend all day in the courtroom, but many lawyers never set foot in a courtroom. Instead, their days are spent meeting with clients and preparing documents: their job is to translate the plain-English requirements of what the clients want to agree upon into legalese that has specific meaning in court.

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#14

Post by aklemm » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 8:17 PM UTC

Shyis wrote: post #3

This is only mildly related to the article, but does anyone else have difficulty imagining what others' jobs are? For example, I'm just young enough to remember a time when I thought a programmer was someone who hid in a closet to slam at a keyboard for nine hours a day, but that notion was only corrected by entering the workforce. What about my other misconceptions? There's no way to learn about all of them firsthan…

"Working" by Studs Terkel comes to mind. http://www.amazon.com/Working-People-Talk-About-What/dp/1565...

So many people have this question early in their careers, it really seems like something is wrong. Perhaps we need a serious/mandatory/formal job-shadowing program for teens and college students.

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#15

Post by Shyis » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 8:23 PM UTC

aklemm wrote: post #14

Shyis wrote: post #3

This is only mildly related to the article, but does anyone else have difficulty imagining what others' jobs are? For example, I'm just young enough to remember a time when I thought a programmer was someone who hid in a closet to slam at a keyboard for nine hours a day, but that notion was only corrected by entering the workforce. What about my other misconceptions? There's no way to learn about all of them firsthan…

"Working" by Studs Terkel comes to mind. http://www.amazon.com/Working-People-Talk-About-What/dp/1565... So many people have this question early in their careers, it really seems like something is wrong. Perhaps we need a serious/mandatory/formal job-shadowing program for teens and college students.

I'll give it a look. Thanks!

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#16

Post by mgunes » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 8:24 PM UTC

Shyis wrote: post #3

This is only mildly related to the article, but does anyone else have difficulty imagining what others' jobs are? For example, I'm just young enough to remember a time when I thought a programmer was someone who hid in a closet to slam at a keyboard for nine hours a day, but that notion was only corrected by entering the workforce. What about my other misconceptions? There's no way to learn about all of them firsthan…

http://bat-bean-beam.blogspot.com/2011/03/what-do-people-do-...

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#17

Post by therealdrag0 » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 8:27 PM UTC

aklemm wrote: post #14

Shyis wrote: post #3

This is only mildly related to the article, but does anyone else have difficulty imagining what others' jobs are? For example, I'm just young enough to remember a time when I thought a programmer was someone who hid in a closet to slam at a keyboard for nine hours a day, but that notion was only corrected by entering the workforce. What about my other misconceptions? There's no way to learn about all of them firsthan…

"Working" by Studs Terkel comes to mind. http://www.amazon.com/Working-People-Talk-About-What/dp/1565... So many people have this question early in their careers, it really seems like something is wrong. Perhaps we need a serious/mandatory/formal job-shadowing program for teens and college students.

That looks perfect. I wish there was an audio version.

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#18

Post by stephengillie » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 8:27 PM UTC

mathattack wrote: post #12

I wonder if this death of criticism is misty eyed nastolgia for a future that either never, or rarely existed. Let's not forget that our so-called great universities: - For a long time excluded women, Jews and many minorities. - Were the providence of only the technocratic elite. - Did very little research before the 20th century. And now that the costs escalate out of control, is it any wonder that they have to go m…

You're assuming that teaching ability scales without scaling the workforce. Having an instructor provide for more students means each student gets less instructor-time. More instructor-time increases the learning ability of most students. And so class size is an important metric.

For most universities, their biggest product is their own marketing and promotional material. Now that they are corporatizing, they are painting hindsight with rose-colored glasses, as "Brave New 1984" as most corporations are wont to do.

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#19

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 8:31 PM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #18

mathattack wrote: post #12

I wonder if this death of criticism is misty eyed nastolgia for a future that either never, or rarely existed. Let's not forget that our so-called great universities: - For a long time excluded women, Jews and many minorities. - Were the providence of only the technocratic elite. - Did very little research before the 20th century. And now that the costs escalate out of control, is it any wonder that they have to go m…

You're assuming that teaching ability scales without scaling the workforce. Having an instructor provide for more students means each student gets less instructor-time. More instructor-time increases the learning ability of most students. And so class size is an important metric. For most universities, their biggest product is their own marketing and promotional material. Now that they are corporatizing, they are pai…

I'm thinking that 'instructor-time' is a myth. A class of 20, say 3 lectures of an hour a week - that's just 9 minutes per student if they spent ALL the time interacting. But they don't; more like a minute per student tops.

No, instructor-time is moot. Maybe instructor training is important; maybe a quality syllabus helps; a good book is key. But the instructor/lecturer can lecture 10 or 100 equally well.

Re: The Slow Death of the University

#20

Post by FeloniousHam » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 8:31 PM UTC

Shyis wrote: post #3

This is only mildly related to the article, but does anyone else have difficulty imagining what others' jobs are? For example, I'm just young enough to remember a time when I thought a programmer was someone who hid in a closet to slam at a keyboard for nine hours a day, but that notion was only corrected by entering the workforce. What about my other misconceptions? There's no way to learn about all of them firsthan…

Slate's Working podcast (now with Adam Davidson): http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/working.html