What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school? • Hacker News Board

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#121

Post by barry-cotter » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 12:04 AM UTC

dba7dba wrote: post #3

I was first from my family (poor) to attend a well known PUBLIC university in US. Like top 5 in US or world, in name recognition. I did not feel like I fit in. Many of the kids at this public university just did not get into one of the ivys but definitely middle/upper-middle class. Many kids in the school that came from poor families often went to a public high school where it was easier to get good enough grades to…

There are no public universities in the top 5 in the US. The top three are Harvard, Yale and Princeton. Stanford is basically comparable. The fifth spot goes to either MIT or University of Chicago, both also private. That was pulled out of my ass but I just looked up the USNWR rankings and Berekeley is 20, and is the first public university on the list. The universities I mentioned form 6 of the top 7, along with Columbia.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#122

Post by spiritplumber » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 12:19 AM UTC

scottbruin wrote: post #67

dsp1234 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously a side note, but I did a test on a topic similar to this. My SO convinced me to try out a custom shoe place (highly reviewed, and recommended) on the theory that if I was only going to buy one pair of shoes, that I should at least have a quality pair to wear around. The results from that (sole) experiment were that the shoes lasted longer but not so much so that they beat out multiple pairs of cheaper shoes…

What kind of quality shoes? Good dress-y shoes can be resoled so they should last more than 4 years.

I own two pairs of sneaker-y leather shoes that look like Timberlands from the 1980s, both made by a cobbler back in Italy who has since retired. They are 6 and 8 years old respectively, and only needed resoling twice.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#123

Post by dba7dba » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 12:37 AM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #121

dba7dba wrote: post #3

I was first from my family (poor) to attend a well known PUBLIC university in US. Like top 5 in US or world, in name recognition. I did not feel like I fit in. Many of the kids at this public university just did not get into one of the ivys but definitely middle/upper-middle class. Many kids in the school that came from poor families often went to a public high school where it was easier to get good enough grades to…

There are no public universities in the top 5 in the US. The top three are Harvard, Yale and Princeton. Stanford is basically comparable. The fifth spot goes to either MIT or University of Chicago, both also private. That was pulled out of my ass but I just looked up the USNWR rankings and Berekeley is 20, and is the first public university on the list. The universities I mentioned form 6 of the top 7, along with Col…

I meant top 5 public school.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#124

Post by alexashka » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 1:09 AM UTC

smeyer wrote: post #82

alexashka wrote: post #71

I think the article misses the point: the problem with poor people is they don't have money. I'd know, I grew up poor. That's the problem, and ONLY problem. 'We can do more to be supportive' - JUST GIVE THEM MONEY. Oh they don't have to pay tuition, that's great. Do they have to pay rent and eat? Do they need to buy textbooks and clothes? Give them money, end of story. All this talk of self-esteem issues - please. Ev…

At the top ivy league schools, they do in fact also pay for rent, food, and even clothes (Harvard has a fund to pay for winter coats for students on certain levels of financial aid.) Harvard also has a fund to pay for some school-sponsored social events (like formal dances) as well as certain types of travel. There is still a notable class difference and there are still issues of money around different types of activ…

If this is truly the case - I don't understand the notion of working part-time and studying at a top school. What is that all about?

If it is as you say it is - then this is just folks boo-hooing about the challenges of... well... being in challenging situations.

You are going to be put in those when it comes to your health, relationships and likely money, sooner or later. Everyone goes through that at some point in time - most come out alive :)

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#125

Post by codva » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 1:13 AM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #112

Crito wrote: post #32

I am curious whether anybody else has experienced this in professional settings. I make as much money as most of my peers at work, but fairly regularly I am made aware of the fact that my upbringing was less affluent than many of theirs. They have stories about exotic vacations they went on with their families, while my stories are about manual labor on farms. On some occasions somebody has made a crack at the expens…

I've definitely noticed that, though I think it varies by region and industry quite a bit. Engineering feels to me a little more "blue-collar" than the tech industry in its attitudes, even though engineers often don't make any less money. Some may have to do with where people come from, e.g. in large parts of engineering, the big "feeder schools" are good but not "elite" public schools: places like Purdue, Texas A&M,…

Purdue graduate here, and I think that's a fair assessment. The rich kids seemed to be Management majors. They just needed a degree so that they could take over Daddy's company when he retired in a few years.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#126

Post by codva » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 1:19 AM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #37

iaw wrote: post #29

The most logistically frustrating part of the ordeal: "Dining halls at some schools, for example, close for spring break, though some students can’t afford to leave campus."

Even during the semester, they didn't serve on Sunday. Presumably because you were all out with friends, eating at a pub or whatever. I just didn't eat on Sunday night.

The cook at the frat house went home after putting lunch out on Friday, and didn't come back until Monday morning. However we had a rule that the kitchen had to be stocked with bread, cheese, butter and Cinnamon toast shakers at all times. You can go all weekend eating grilled cheese and cinnamon toast sandwiches.I did it a few times, at least.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#127

Post by stegosaurus » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 1:33 AM UTC

matthewowen wrote: post #109

stegosaurus wrote: post #9

I attended an elite UK university having had a poor upbringing. This article reads painfully to me. I don't have the words to describe why, but I can try. The closest I can come is to say that this idea of inclusiveness is terminally broken. It's a sort of bandage over a huge chasm of differences. For a poor person to become wealthy requires them to discard their baggage. Change the accent, the clothes, the pop cultu…

My experience of "an elite UK university" (quotes because I feel silly saying it) was different. Even amongst people from upper-middle class privileged backgrounds, I think there was a pretty large disparity between people whose parents gave them lots of money, and people whose parents expected them to live off their student loans entirely. I'm not saying that there weren't wealthy people who spent absurd amounts of…

I feel we don't actually disagree.

I didn't have the sort of 'ski trip' nonsense. I mean it existed but didn't really affect me.

The subtle things do though. I had never met a middle class person in my age group before going to University. It's not just wealth. It's dinner, it's Radio 4, it's video games, it's national parks not Butlins. These things aren't really categorically 'superior', that's the thing. But they are kind of assumed in a way that doesn't happen for, say, immigrants.

(I grew up in a council house, not ex. but the african dude above has us both beat. :D)

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#128

Post by stegosaurus » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 1:36 AM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #94

stegosaurus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, but you see, that's my point. It's not inferiority, or lack of confidence. I didn't 'feel' out of place. I was out of place - the whole thing was out of place. The article seems to focus on the 'bad', as if there's an injustice perpetrated against poor students. But it doesn't work like that. The people just inhabit different worlds, the mutual understanding is limited, it requires effort rather than being automa…

SO, its natural and right that schools should be tailored for the rich? That's not an injustice? Remember, these are tax-exempt institutions.

The injustice is wealth inequality in general.

UK elite universities are constantly railed on for not admitting more poor students, but part of the issue is that we simply have lower levels of attainment. Equality there is not possible without negative discrimination.

How do we fix wealth inequality? Well, we probably can't. But I do think we could go further towards providing necessities to all, which would solve a lot of the issues.

Simplified, some people have to worry about making the rent. Others own property outright. That's a massive gulf.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#129

Post by takeda » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 2:31 AM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #49

jheriko wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its hard to take the article very seriously from the title, but it does make for a slightly cringeworthy read. As someone from a very poor background (actual poor - starving in africa poor, not US overprivileged 'I can eat for free out of bins' poor, but this is all relative...) I can sympathise somewhat too. I agree with the point made here in this comment- personally, I never felt like I had the kind of disadvantag…

> A very rich man once said to me that if you act like a rich person eventually you would find yourself to be rich... I think there is an element of truth in that. Unfortunately, there is also truth in the idea that if you act like you're rich, you end up poor, because you wind up spending all you have (probably plus some).

The rich people who actually got rich themselves and not just inherited their money actually don't spend their money left & right. Check Warren Buffet.

Re: What is it like to be poor at an Ivy League school?

#130

Post by mc32 » Thu, Apr 23, 2015, 2:48 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #92

mc32 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. I went to a state uni and worked my way thru school. Yeah I get it, there were times your feel out of place. People able to go to nice places during holidays, etc. But my god, I didn't feel inferior just because I could not afford those things. Sure there were times dates consisted of taking a trip on mass transit somewhere you have never been just to see what's there. But hell, you're going to school so you…

This is about connections later in life that can have huge economic benefits. Connections to someone who's starting a business and needs a co-founder is much more "economically" valuable than someone who's going in as a regular software developer. Same person, same skillset, different connections, very very different economic outcomes.

The Chinese are fascinating in this regard. To some extent they can thinking term and are willing to sacrifice the present generation so that the future generation have an advantage. That's to say they are willing to toil and thole in this generation to step up one more rung and have next generation one run closer to the top.

Parents will live in penury in order that they afford their progeny a better future. This is not u heard of in the west, but it's less common. Culture has a lot to do with it.