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Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

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Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#81

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

throwaway9324 wrote: post #55

If there's anything that's worrying it's how eager people are to misunderstand the article in favor of their own preconceived notions. This isn't about competing with SV as a startup hub, but about European companies being about compete with US companies in the local market. Which is a very real problem. Europe (at least northern) is probably the easiest place in the world to start an Internet company. And we're also…

As a European, I've thought long and hard about the disadvantages of SV. Not least:

Cost of living. SF is far more expensive than anywhere in Europe, including London. This immediately ratchets up the burn rate.

Red tape. Whether it's a Delaware off-the-shelf incorporation or something else, sooner or later you're going to have to deal with the IRS. From previous experience that's a world of pain.

Health care. I don't pay for it here. I'd have to pay for it there - and pay a lot.

There are advantages too - immediate access to a huge market, mostly speaking a single language; lower sales taxes; networking and culture; weather (although cities like Barcelona which are comparable).

Access to talent is roughly equal. Certainly there are areas in Europe where developer standards are reassuringly high.

The real difference is that SV has a strong start-up tradition, while Europe has an industrial tradition of bigger and more established concerns, and start-ups seem to happen more by accident, often in waves - like the home computing wave of the early 80s, and the current tail end of the app+game wave.

Europe could certainly do more to improve that, but it's not so impossible to make things work here - it's just the challenges are different.

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#82

Post by tincholio »

Gys wrote: post #41

The digital single market strategy “in no way” aims to limit the progress of U.S. tech firms in Europe, Mr. Ansip told The Wall Street Journal. No worries there ! The European strategy is always to have more and complicated rules (VAT got far more complex by Jan 1st 2015, net-neutrality is discussed, data roaming is under attack, etc). European politicians do not understand that all the big companies once started as…

>By complicating things (again: VAT, data roaming, etc)

What exactly do you think the problem is with abolishing data roaming charges? As it is, the telcos are screwing everyone, the plan to limit the data roaming charges is good from everyone else's perspective!

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#83

Post by pluma »

rockdoe wrote: post #53
sschueller wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is a good thing that Europe may never have a Silicon Valley. Some things in the US corporate world are extremely reckless and pray on the many to profit the few.

Is that an accurate characterization of Silicon Valley, though? If you're an engineer in a startup you known you're making somewhat of a gamble. But even if you lose, you're not exactly going to be poor. If you're a founder, my impression at least is that the US culture is much more tolerant of people whose business went bankrupt. In Europe you're just one step up from a criminal.

To be fair, a lot of American startups only work because of the lack of privacy and labour laws in the US (compared to the EU). EU legislature may be a hassle at times, but it tends to give customers and employees a lot of protection they wouldn't get in the US.

But what you say about startups in the EU is true. In many EU countries insolvency can have drastic consequences for the founder(s). In some of them it's also much harder to incorporate than in the US (e.g. in Germany you need to raise € 25k to form a "GmbH"; there is now also a transitional form called "UG (haftungsbeschränkt)" (yes, always unabbreviated or you can be sued) but you still need to follow all the legal and tax requirements and everyone will think you're poor and/or a scam).

Additionally VCs seem to focus more on traditional requirements and metrics, like business plans or profit estimates, rather than growth or traction. For example it seems to be nearly impossible to get funding for open source companies ("So let me get this right: you're giving it away for free and you expect us to fund you?").

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#84

Post by [deleted] »

api wrote: post #66
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #2

"Europe" competing with a small neighborhood on the west coast where the vast majority of the world's tech capital lives? Sorry I don't see it. Combined with the gloomy pessimism and fear of failure even in Europe's brightest areas (London and Berlin) and the absolute, spineless pathetic nature of European VC's (no not bitter at all ;) Europe will NEVER compete on any meaningful level with Silicon Valley. edit: spell…

You really just described most of the world, not just Europe. The Bay Area is among a small number of bright spots where people actually do things.

[deleted]

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#85

Post by Gys »

tincholio wrote: post #82
Gys wrote: post #41

The digital single market strategy “in no way” aims to limit the progress of U.S. tech firms in Europe, Mr. Ansip told The Wall Street Journal. No worries there ! The European strategy is always to have more and complicated rules (VAT got far more complex by Jan 1st 2015, net-neutrality is discussed, data roaming is under attack, etc). European politicians do not understand that all the big companies once started as…

>By complicating things (again: VAT, data roaming, etc) What exactly do you think the problem is with abolishing data roaming charges? As it is, the telcos are screwing everyone, the plan to limit the data roaming charges is good from everyone else's perspective!

Yes, there should be no roaming charges so people can freely travel in Europe and be online always and everywhere. That would be good. However, the latest plan is to NOT abolish them... Just a discount for a while or some free data for one week or something :-( Not really helpful in creating 'one market'...

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#86

Post by lurcio »

Gys wrote: post #41

The digital single market strategy “in no way” aims to limit the progress of U.S. tech firms in Europe, Mr. Ansip told The Wall Street Journal. No worries there ! The European strategy is always to have more and complicated rules (VAT got far more complex by Jan 1st 2015, net-neutrality is discussed, data roaming is under attack, etc). European politicians do not understand that all the big companies once started as…

I'm sure that's not an artifact of policy.

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#87

Post by bsaul »

solve wrote: post #73
namlem wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The closest thing Europe has to a major tech hub is Tel Aviv.

So the best tech hub in Europe is - not in Europe? Figures. :) True though, serious stuff seems to be happening with Israel. I even know of a growing number of US-based startups who've been raising parts of their rounds from Israel-based investors in the past few years. Correct me if I'm wrong, my impression is that they don't have the anti-American nationalism and not invented here syndrome mentalities that countrie…

Europe corps aren't anti-american when it's about tech. Pretty much the opposite. We had to pretend our french tech was developped at our US office to be able to sell it to german companies.

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#88

Post by solve »

bsaul wrote: post #87
solve wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the best tech hub in Europe is - not in Europe? Figures. :) True though, serious stuff seems to be happening with Israel. I even know of a growing number of US-based startups who've been raising parts of their rounds from Israel-based investors in the past few years. Correct me if I'm wrong, my impression is that they don't have the anti-American nationalism and not invented here syndrome mentalities that countrie…

Europe corps aren't anti-american when it's about tech. Pretty much the opposite. We had to pretend our french tech was developped at our US office to be able to sell it to german companies.

I was unclear. Of course they have no hesitation about consuming US products or services. I meant about adopting the US business culture & investment habits in their offices.

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#89

Post by [deleted] »

saosebastiao wrote: post #64
wobbleblob wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Innovation isn't slow in Denmark at all (source: I work for a Danish software company). Do you have any evidence people from these 'everyone can learn to code bootcamps' actually land good jobs or end up doing something innovating in the US? I think the difference between Denmark and Silicon valley is investment money and the size of the domestic market. If the EU wants to recreate Silicon Valley, it's not tech they…

I can't speak for the bootcamps, but I know dozens of self taught developers working at Amazon and Google, and the large companies are typically more credentialist. I have no problem believing that coding bootcamps can result in high paying jobs.

[deleted]

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#90

Post by _delirium »

hikz wrote: post #13
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #2

"Europe" competing with a small neighborhood on the west coast where the vast majority of the world's tech capital lives? Sorry I don't see it. Combined with the gloomy pessimism and fear of failure even in Europe's brightest areas (London and Berlin) and the absolute, spineless pathetic nature of European VC's (no not bitter at all ;) Europe will NEVER compete on any meaningful level with Silicon Valley. edit: spell…

Here in Denmark IT companies are extremely elitist. Tons of simple ASP.NET and Java EE jobs require a master's degree in CS or CE. Contrast this with the coding bootcamps and "everyone can learn to code" culture in the US and you can see why innovation is so slow here in Denmark. I am a CS student genuinely interested in compiler construction, distributed systems and programming language design so I don't feel I'm be…

There's some of that, but I've also met quite a few self-taught programmers in the Nordic region. They mostly do have some very "solid" alternative credentials. One of the more common alternative credentials, which I think is a bit unique to the region, is the heavy role of people from the demoscene. If you look at programmers in many tech companies, there are a lot of demoscene people lacking university degrees who fill senior roles. This is more true outside the very traditional sectors, though; IO Interactive has more demoscene alumni than Danske Bank does.
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