Project Fi by Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Project Fi by Google

#411

Post by joshgachnang » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 9:56 PM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #355

samstave wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have Sprint and I live in Alameda Ca - and work in SOMA in SF - It is hands down the worst cellular carrier in the bay area with respect to LTE coverage and speed: 1. They have been claiming they are building new towers for the last THREE years. 2. No coverage AT ALL in any bart tunnel 3. No coverage fully across the bay bridge 4. Spotty coverage in SOMA 5. Google hangouts is utterly useless on mobile 6. three huge…

But that's the whole point of Google Fi. They partnered with Sprint and T-Mobile. When your in Alameda and Sprint sucks, Google puts you on T-Mobile's network, and you get better data + coverage. When you head to the rural Midwest, and T-Mobile has EDGE or no service at all, Google can put you back on Sprint LTE and it's at least better than EDGE on T-Mobile. If this works the way they describe, then you win in both…

This is exactly where I'm at. T-Mobile is super fast in Oakland, SF, and even in the BART tunnels, but I just went home to WI and had terrible T-Mobile coverage outside of Milwaukee. So I popped in my Ting SIM (a Sprint MVNO, $6/mo to keep the line open, pay for what you use) and instantly had good coverage.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#412

Post by psquid » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 9:57 PM UTC

pluma wrote: post #126

wmf wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a thing in the US, because "computer data" is better and more expensive than "phone data".

Amazing. How do they tell whether you're tethering, though? If you're using your own smartphone, I mean.

There's various ways:

Some rely on the device itself to enforce it, but that's obviously fragile if you can bring your own device.

Some check the TTL of your packets when they enter the carrier's network, because tethering is at least one more hop and so even if your computer's OS and phone's OS agree on what TTL starts at, the TTL will still be different than expected for your device's platform. Obviously this can still be mitigated by adjusting your TTL, but outside of software that'll handle this for them, that's already beyond a lot of customers.

Some even take the route of only checking HTTP traffic, and detecting tethering based on User-Agent, but I think a lot have abandoned that because it doesn't catch other protocols, and is easily bypassed even on HTTP.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#413

Post by VikingCoder » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 9:57 PM UTC

yellowapple wrote: post #396

VikingCoder wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you're getting me. I'm saying that eventually T-Mobile and Sprint will not be able to offer $70 or $90 a month for unlimited data. Or if they do, it will be so throttled as to be completely meaningless. I'm predicting that as more people use more of their data, the network will not grow fast enough to support the total bandwidth. The fact that they can currently offer "unlimited" is a temporary condition…

And I'm saying that getting rid of unlimited data doesn't solve the problem of network congestion. Actually putting work into the network does solve the problem of network congestion. Don't punish users because you're too lazy to provide them with a network that's actually designed to handle current/future data demand.

And I'm predicting that it will be economically impossible to handle future data demand, if you allow "unlimited data."

Even with the best intentions. You would need to be subsidized by the government to provide it.

Since so few people TODAY currently make use of their unlimited data, the network can afford to offer those terms. And they found that by offering those terms, they attracted a disproportionate number of customers. In short, it was popular and profitable.

But at some point, the aggregate network demand will exceed even the THEORETICAL network capacity, if you offer your customers unlimited data, and demand goes up the way I think it will.

Or in essence, you will need to limit bandwidth to the point that calling it "unlimited" is just ridiculous.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#414

Post by mohoff » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 10:00 PM UTC

The Circle.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#415

Post by profmonocle » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 10:00 PM UTC

hayksaakian wrote: post #366

This (metered data) seems anti-thetical to google Google wants you to use the internet as much as possible. They want you to use google search, watch youtube videos, check gmail, write google documents. Now you're discouraged from doing all those things due to metered data. The Business Model of Google Fi seems extremely short sighted, ----- For context: I'm using metroPCS with a nexus 5. I get Unlimited 4G on T-Mobi…

From what I've been told, Sprint and T-Mobile charge MVNOs (networks using their infrastructure) by the byte. Google can't offer unlimited data without running their own network or taking big losses on customers that use a lot of data.

There are no data caps on Google Fiber, so they seem to realize that caps aren't effective for managing congestion. But for now they have to play along with the big networks' models.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#416

Post by wtallis » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 10:00 PM UTC

jmilloy wrote: post #406

wtallis wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Republic announced earlier this week that they're going to be beta-testing basically everything that Google Fi will offer that isn't currently part of Republic's service: more flexible billing for data plans, adding a second cellular provider (almost certainly T-Mobile), a new handset (the Nexus 6 is the most likely candidate), cell-to-WiFi handover. The only thing Google's promising that Republic isn't is the in…

> The only thing Google's promising that Republic isn't is the international service. Can you comment on tethering? IIRC, my Moto X through Republic doesn't allow tethering.

It would be really stupid to announce a service with tethering limitations that will almost certainly be illegal by the time the service exits beta testing. The FCC net neutrality regulations will prevent service providers from doing anything to interfere with tethering.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#417

Post by ngoldbaum » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 10:01 PM UTC

kissickas wrote: post #327

Someone1234 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am on T-Mobile and travelled outside the US late last year. First off, I just want to say, the "free tier" of international data is extremely appreciated for two important reasons: - Overage is literally impossible (i.e. no "bill shock"). - If you don't wish to pay, you get "something" for nothing. So, now, the "bad." The reality is that T-Mobile's free tier is incredibly slow like "my 56K modem was faster than thi…

Absolutely correct about restarting your phone. I even restart mine twice after I change SIM cards (not a T-Mobile guy). What's your experience with Google Maps at the free 2G speeds? That would be my first question when it comes to travel.

Fun thing to keep in mind when traveling in mainland China: maps for use outside China are shifted by a few hundred meters, presumably in a lame attempt to confuse an invading army.

https://polastre.com/2013/02/what-the-map/

Re: Project Fi by Google

#418

Post by nl » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 10:03 PM UTC

nevir wrote: post #374

rlu wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahhh soooo annoying that it requires a Nexus 6. This sounds so awesome but I do not want a 6" phone. I'm hoping the next Nexus phone will have a smaller variant (and it will undoubtedly support Project Fi)

Agree. Edit: Looks like the Sony Z3C is a (and the only?) contender! --- But, I've also given up on that front. The last phone that was (barely) usable one-handed for me was the original Moto X. At this point, there is literally not a single phone on the market that (that I can find): * Runs a recent version of Android (or iOS) * Is * Has a recent/"fast" CPU/GPU So, fuck it, time to give in and go with a phablet.

Another vote for the Sony Z3C. I'm an avowed Sony hater, but I'm liking mine.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#419

Post by nevir » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 10:03 PM UTC

gareim wrote: post #402

nevir wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Edit: Looks like the Sony Z3C is a (and the only?) contender! --- But, I've also given up on that front. The last phone that was (barely) usable one-handed for me was the original Moto X. At this point, there is literally not a single phone on the market that (that I can find): * Runs a recent version of Android (or iOS) * Is * Has a recent/"fast" CPU/GPU So, fuck it, time to give in and go with a phablet.

Sony Z3 Compact. Is 5.01 inches tall, but your original Moto X was 5.09 and you seemed to like it fine. Fast/recent specs. Runs a recent version of Android.

Nice! Not sure how I missed that one, maybe it's the way to go...

Re: Project Fi by Google

#420

Post by profmonocle » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 10:03 PM UTC

I wonder how integrated this will be with Google Voice. For instance, will the voice/SMS component have the same spam filtering and Gmail integration that GVoice users get?