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Project Fi by Google

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Re: Project Fi by Google

#211

Post by iamdanfox »

tomhschmidt wrote: post #93
MBlume wrote: post #40

"We refund the data you don't use" is basically a way of saying "you pay by the megabyte for the data you do use" -- which is actually really great, I've been frustrated that everyone's settled on "all-you-can-eat" data as the standard, it doesn't align incentives well at all. And they really are refunding it: if you use 1.2GB per month, it doesn't matter whether you sign up for 2, 5, or 10GB, your bill comes out exa…

This plan actually makes no sense. Overage charges are the same rate ($10 / GB), so why am I buying a "plan" at all? Why don't they just charge $10 * x gigs / month instead of all this buying / refunding business?

I bet there would be a psychological impact. People would curtail their usage and frantically switch antennas on and off, resulting in an overall poor experience.

Perhaps having a big allowance in mind just encourages people to use their data!

Re: Project Fi by Google

#212

Post by stephenr »

vjdhama wrote: post #48

It's amazing that $10/GB is about 4 times amount local telecom providers charge for 3G in india.

Same with Thailand - 5x the price of local 4G data, which caps to 384k after 20GB.

Even their roaming price doesn't compare well - for Asia I get ~$8 per day, for Europe, North America and Oceana it's $15 per day. This is for unlimited data, at full local network speed.

Last time I was in LA for a project (with half a dozen others, all came in from different countries) it often worked out cheaper/easier for them to all just ether to my phone than deal with a crappy prepaid data service each.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#213

Post by miah_ »

I already have metropcs, its $40/mo for unlimited everything. My plan covers unlimited up to 3g, for 4g or LTE I get 2gb/mo. If I wanted unlimited though, its only $60/mo. How is $100 for 10GB even comparable? Metropcs also has no contract required.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#214

Post by Dylan16807 »

eli wrote: post #103
mentat wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Type "2.5" to accept surge pricing.

But I want my email and push notifications to happen the background without paying extra. Unless it's been a while, then I probably am willing to pay extra. Seems awfully tricky.

Doesn't seem too tricky to me. Email and push notifications are almost zero data; go ahead and let them pay full price.

Download updates and podcasts at 4AM.

Maybe ask before doing interactive high-bandwidth things, depends on user preference.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#215

Post by hennaheto »

MBlume wrote: post #154
wting wrote: post #139

For family plans T-Mobile's Simple Choice Plan beats Google Fi in most respects: - No contract - Unlimited domestic talk, intl talk from US to ~100 countries - Competitive intl talk - Unlimited domestic + intl text - 2.5GB 4G LTE data - Unlimited domestic + intl 2G data (128Kbps vs Google's 3G 256Kbps) - Use any GSM phone, not just Nexus 6 - Phones purchased from T-Mobile come with Wi-Fi calling Most of my family mem…

Look at the name. I think their goal is that most of the time when you're out and about, you're connected to Wi-Fi. I think the cellular partners are a crutch to get them there. If they manage that, you'll wind up paying a lot less than with T-Mobile.

I usually don't have wifi while I am out and about, most stores at least require you to hit accept on their terms and conditions before you can actually connect. Maybe if they showed wifi hotspots on their coverage map I could get behind this idea.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#216

Post by foobarqux »

miahi wrote: post #163
foobarqux wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They invest the float. edit: Removed reference to cash conversion cycle because it doesn't really have anything to do with that.

It's Google, they have plenty of cash, do they really need to invest the float of a $20 data plan?

No, they could make a business unit less profitable than it could be. They can also afford to throw money away, it doesn't mean that they should.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#217

Post by Someone1234 »

smacktoward wrote: post #171
wiremine wrote: post #92

For those who don't want to read the FAQ or find the video incredibly unhelpful [1]: a. It only supports the Nexus 6 out of the gate. b. It automatically switches you to the "fastest" network available. Partners out of the gate are Sprint and T-mobile. Sounds like it prefers Wifi, then 4G LTE, and then degrades down to 3G or 2G. c. Pricing is $20 for unlimited talk (domestic) and text (domestic and international) and…

What I don't get is, what's in this for Sprint and T-Mobile? Currently a user of their network is a customer they "own" -- they deal with that customer directly. Now they have Google sitting between them and the user, which effectively commoditizes their service; Google could switch them out for another network down the road without the user ever knowing or caring. That's great for Google, and probably also great for…

> What I don't get is, what's in this for Sprint and T-Mobile?

Both Sprint and T-Mobile have to build physical infrasture, both to offer basic services (e.g. 3G, talk/text) but to also compete (4G, LTE, etc). Building infrastructure is really expensive. They need land, licences, power, and a network to connect that tower to (assuming it isn't just a relay).

So both networks have this HUGE sunk cost. In an ideal world they would be able to recruit enough users to consume each tower's capacity by 100% at peak. But because they're competing against other networks (with more users) and have to look competitive, they've over-built their network both in scope (e.g. servicing areas with few users) and capacity.

If Sprint and T-Mobile were confident that they could recruit enough users to fill their network they likely wouldn't agree to this deal. Just as AT&T and Verizon haven't. However the likely reality is that both Sprint and T-Mobile are well over capacity in certain areas and every penny that Google can bring in by stealing uses from the big two is just further helps Sprint and T-mobile, even if they just use it to further build out their respective networks.

Additionally: You could frame this as an "illusion of choice." You have Walmart/Target Cellular (Straight Talk/Brightspot) on the low end, T-Mobile themselves in the middle, and Google's Project Fi offering a niche service, but in reality they're all just T-Mobile aimed at a different user base. In all three cases T-Mobile grows, their network grows, and they could kick these brands off any time the contract is up for renew.

PS - T-Mobile actually host just under 30(!) different cellular providers in the US[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_mobile_v...

Re: Project Fi by Google

#218

Post by eli »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #138
eli wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So has T-Mobile. Any sufficiently fast wifi network becomes a mini network tower. It's a great idea.

To offload to wifi, the wifi doesn't even need to be fast. Voice traffic uses very little bandwidth. The connection simply must have low packet loss and as little latency as possible. When in non-T-mobile coverage areas, I use my Verizon hotspot for wifi calling with my T-Mobile iPhone, even if the hotspot can only provide 2/3G.

True, that's what I meant by fast. I think it's only something like 30kbs, but it needs to have low packet loss and low jitter or the call will be garbled.

Re: Project Fi by Google

#219

Post by esalman »

wiremine wrote: post #92

For those who don't want to read the FAQ or find the video incredibly unhelpful [1]: a. It only supports the Nexus 6 out of the gate. b. It automatically switches you to the "fastest" network available. Partners out of the gate are Sprint and T-mobile. Sounds like it prefers Wifi, then 4G LTE, and then degrades down to 3G or 2G. c. Pricing is $20 for unlimited talk (domestic) and text (domestic and international) and…

Whom do I pay, Google?

Re: Project Fi by Google

#220

Post by laurencerowe »

smacktoward wrote: post #171
wiremine wrote: post #92

For those who don't want to read the FAQ or find the video incredibly unhelpful [1]: a. It only supports the Nexus 6 out of the gate. b. It automatically switches you to the "fastest" network available. Partners out of the gate are Sprint and T-mobile. Sounds like it prefers Wifi, then 4G LTE, and then degrades down to 3G or 2G. c. Pricing is $20 for unlimited talk (domestic) and text (domestic and international) and…

What I don't get is, what's in this for Sprint and T-Mobile? Currently a user of their network is a customer they "own" -- they deal with that customer directly. Now they have Google sitting between them and the user, which effectively commoditizes their service; Google could switch them out for another network down the road without the user ever knowing or caring. That's great for Google, and probably also great for…

Google is charging a significant markup over T-Mobile's existing rates ($30/month for 5Gb vs $70/month through Gooogle.) So Fi is really only interesting for people doing significant international roaming.
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