Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#51

Post by rockdoe » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 3:20 PM UTC

yc1010 wrote: post #45

As a European the title of the article pretty much sums up why there is no Silicon Valley here in Europe. Politicians and bureaucrats think they can somehow create and run such an environment from "the top down", when what is needed is a culture change and more venture funds to dangle carrots for entrepreneurs. Here often you have to deal with state bodies for funding for startups populated by beuracrats and controll…

And the best way to introduce innovation "from the top down" for some reason always involves inventing more complicated legislation or benefits.

Then somehow, large established companies turn out to be the ones who end up profiting because they have the legal/administrative staff to file out a few tons of paperwork.

It's truly maddening.

I worked for a European startup once, and one of the founders left to create a consultancy that did nothing else than to help other companies fill out the relevant forms.

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#52

Post by Kurtz79 » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 3:23 PM UTC

rdudek wrote: post #28

hikz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Denmark IT companies are extremely elitist. Tons of simple ASP.NET and Java EE jobs require a master's degree in CS or CE. Contrast this with the coding bootcamps and "everyone can learn to code" culture in the US and you can see why innovation is so slow here in Denmark. I am a CS student genuinely interested in compiler construction, distributed systems and programming language design so I don't feel I'm be…

Isn't this more of a supply/demand issue than anything else? Most my friends back in Poland are coders and engineers and they all have master degrees in their fields.

My thoughts exactly. A difference between US and Europe is that in EU countries a degree is cheaper (or completely free if you meet some financial and grades requirements), since it is subsidized by the state in many cases.

But I agree with the parent that it shouldn't be a discrimination, especially if you can demonstrate relevant experience in the field.

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#53

Post by rockdoe » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 3:24 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #47

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #2

"Europe" competing with a small neighborhood on the west coast where the vast majority of the world's tech capital lives? Sorry I don't see it. Combined with the gloomy pessimism and fear of failure even in Europe's brightest areas (London and Berlin) and the absolute, spineless pathetic nature of European VC's (no not bitter at all ;) Europe will NEVER compete on any meaningful level with Silicon Valley. edit: spell…

I think that is a good thing that Europe may never have a Silicon Valley. Some things in the US corporate world are extremely reckless and pray on the many to profit the few.

Is that an accurate characterization of Silicon Valley, though?

If you're an engineer in a startup you known you're making somewhat of a gamble. But even if you lose, you're not exactly going to be poor. If you're a founder, my impression at least is that the US culture is much more tolerant of people whose business went bankrupt. In Europe you're just one step up from a criminal.

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#54

Post by shakethemonkey » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 3:24 PM UTC

solve wrote: post #9

guard-of-terra wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, they are creating a largest uniform digital goods landscape in the world with wealthiest customers. It they are successful we are bound to see quite a few new spotifys. UPD: And VAT is smaller than e.g. 30% iTunes cut, which they can now regulate with a wave of hand.

Just adding more taxes does nothing to create a more uniform landscape. For the Europeans, consider that Amazon & other US web companies got to charge 0% sales tax for almost their entire customer-base in the US, until they were far beyond the startup stage. For many of their US customers, they still get to charge 0%. That's what promoting small businesses looks like. VAT adds tons of problems, especially for service…

There are between 7,500 and 15,000 different sales tax jurisdictions in the United States, based variously on overlapping municipalities, school districts, metropolitan transit areas, etc. If one stipulates the necessity of paying out-of-state sales tax, the complexity of the situation makes it next to impossible to comply. Neighboring houses in the same city may have different sales tax rates. There are firms that specialize in just this, but even those can't achieve 100% accuracy.

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#55

Post by throwaway9324 » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 3:29 PM UTC

If there's anything that's worrying it's how eager people are to misunderstand the article in favor of their own preconceived notions. This isn't about competing with SV as a startup hub, but about European companies being about compete with US companies in the local market. Which is a very real problem.

Europe (at least northern) is probably the easiest place in the world to start an Internet company. And we're also quite privileged in our opportunities in the US. If you're not doing one or the other (and want to of course) it's likely mostly your own fault.

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#56

Post by adventured » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 3:36 PM UTC

martijn_himself wrote: post #10

I think this is a fine example of a commission overestimating the amount of influence it can realistically bring to bear on technological advancement. Sure, removing barriers to competition should be a no brainer and differences between EU countries should be normalised. Also, the next time someone says ' X is the next Silicon Valley' or ' X is Y 's Silicon Valley' I'm going to throw myself off a cliff. How about ins…

Those looking to build their own Silicon Valley don't seem to grasp that there can be no other Silicon Valley. It is unique, derived from countless events spanning 60 years that are only possessed by Silicon Valley and which shaped that area distinctly. From Shockley to HP to Intel to Sun and Oracle, to Facebook and Google. That has a long chain of evolution, rolling venture capital returns, investor stock wealth (angels), built-up risk taking, very experienced management, and on and on. Such a thing can't be duplicated no matter what is attempted, you can't repeat the past that shaped Silicon Valley, so you can't build your own Silicon Valley.

Can Paris build something that could create their own domestic tech juggernauts? Absolutely, and it'll be nothing like Silicon Valley, it'll be unique to that locality in how it grows and behaves; it'll have a different approach to risk, or to funding, or to term sheets, or to exit opportunities et al.

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#57

Post by FD3SA » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 3:44 PM UTC

wobbleblob wrote: post #11

> A single digital market could bring in €340 billion to European GDP, create 3.8 million jobs, Automation was never about creating jobs. In my experience it's mainly about two things: - Doing the same or more work with fewer people - Doing things a person cannot safely or accurate or affordably (or at all) do in person Compare the number of people employed by a major software company compared to a major oil company…

Precisely. I am still waiting for the dime to drop in politics regarding the true nature of technology. It is all about efficiency, and by definition, human workers are inefficient. Once this fact is internalized and understood, we can begin having a frank discussion on what our societies will look like in the future.

Spoiler: it won't be anything like the present system.

If the current systems are in place going forward, we will have a dystopian future where a tiny percentage of the world population owns everything, and everyone else is a useless meatbag. Farming, manufacturing, defence, sanitation and other critical infrastructure will be highly automated. Consumer products will no longer be lucrative because the majority of consumers will have zero disposable income. Luxury goods will be the new consumer market [1].

The unholy trinity of capitalism, globalisation and automation is proving far too effective. Off-shore labor minimizes costs in the short term, while automation eliminates them in the long term. As capital increasingly substitutes for labor (in the form of technology) as the sole factor of production, it becomes impossible to participate in the market without large capital reserves. Thus, the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. Piketty has already documented this phenomenon occurring across the board.

We live in interesting times.

1. http://store.apple.com/ca/buy-watch/apple-watch-edition?prod...

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#58

Post by adventured » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 3:44 PM UTC

Kurtz79 wrote: post #52

rdudek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this more of a supply/demand issue than anything else? Most my friends back in Poland are coders and engineers and they all have master degrees in their fields.

My thoughts exactly. A difference between US and Europe is that in EU countries a degree is cheaper (or completely free if you meet some financial and grades requirements), since it is subsidized by the state in many cases. But I agree with the parent that it shouldn't be a discrimination, especially if you can demonstrate relevant experience in the field.

Despite the cost of tuition doubling in the last decade or so, the US still produces a vast number of college graduates. It ranks #6 in the world in terms of college graduates (assoc. degree or higher) per capita (behind Russia, Canada, Israel, New Zealand, Japan).

The US is also now producing twice the number of masters graduates per capita it was 25 years ago.

One thing that US isn't lacking for, is college degrees.

And when it comes to the free aspect - if that's so great, how come 3/4 of European countries have vastly lower college graduation rates versus the US?

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#59

Post by tormeh » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 3:45 PM UTC

Kurtz79 wrote: post #52

rdudek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this more of a supply/demand issue than anything else? Most my friends back in Poland are coders and engineers and they all have master degrees in their fields.

My thoughts exactly. A difference between US and Europe is that in EU countries a degree is cheaper (or completely free if you meet some financial and grades requirements), since it is subsidized by the state in many cases. But I agree with the parent that it shouldn't be a discrimination, especially if you can demonstrate relevant experience in the field.

Not free of opportunity costs, and even if the degree is free, you still have to eat and pay rent.

Re: Europe’s Plan to Compete with Silicon Valley

#60

Post by father_of_two » Wed, Apr 22, 2015, 3:52 PM UTC

Click-bait alert!

This is just an US article about Europe, which falls in the same spectrum of English telling History or Silvia Saint praising virginity.

  much of Europe lags behind, with countries in the south 
  and east in particular struggling with slower, less 
  reliable 3G and even 2G

Oh the 'lagging-primitive-corrupt and who knows what else' southern European countries again. Here's some info. Portugal has 3G since 2006 and 4G (by all ops) since 2011.

Jesus! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3kcnm2THXI

Just relax :)