The Modern Workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: The Modern Workforce

#31

Post by trhway » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 7:43 PM UTC

eldavido wrote: post #16

doki_pen wrote: post #9

Turning ordinary employees in to independent contractors is a disturbing trend that is eliminating traditional workers rights. Although some new companies have legitimate reasons for hiring contractors, for most it's not part of some new amazing model of labor, it's simply a way to save money. Usually it's illegal, but the IRS is being destroyed by budget cuts and can no longer enforce the law. Filing against your em…

Right, except (1) it's your obligation to change the law as a voter and (2) profit-maximizing companies have every obligation to act in their shareholder's best interests, within the bounds of the law . So really, it's up to us as citizens to decide what's fair, and get the appropriate legislation passed to change it.

>(2) profit-maximizing companies have every obligation to act in their shareholder's best interests, within the bounds of the law.

is profit-maximization a law? because i don't see why for example a company can't be formed for the purpose of "betterment of humanity" and if it earns some profit on the way - great - and if not - it is ok too. As long as shareholders agree to that, ie. buy shares of such a company.

Re: The Modern Workforce

#32

Post by mhurron » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 7:47 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #15

doki_pen wrote: post #9

Turning ordinary employees in to independent contractors is a disturbing trend that is eliminating traditional workers rights. Although some new companies have legitimate reasons for hiring contractors, for most it's not part of some new amazing model of labor, it's simply a way to save money. Usually it's illegal, but the IRS is being destroyed by budget cuts and can no longer enforce the law. Filing against your em…

It depends on the relationship, being an actual independent contractor is truly liberating. Choosing your own hours, working only on things you want to, setting your own salary based on how much you want to t work. There is real freedom in that as long as you get paid appropriately and actually get that freedom. Companies wanting to save money on benefits while having 9-5 workers with no freedom of choice of when or…

> That's abuse of the system and illegal.

Everything is legal as long as you don't get caught, and it doesn't seem like anyone is interested in doing any catching.

Re: The Modern Workforce

#33

Post by alexqgb » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 7:54 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #19

gaius wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also the screw-your-neighbour economy. If your little AirBnB money-spinner increases wear-and-tear on the common areas of the building, it's the other tenants who will pick up the costs of the extra maintenance. In time it will come to be seen as profoundly anti-social. Not to mention, if you're running a business you should be paying business rates and taxes... Remind me where is the "sharing"?

If I leave town and rent out my flat, wear and tear on the elevator goes up relative to me not leaving town?

Are you trolling again, yummy? Or are you honestly too thoughtless to recognize that a stream of people who have no long-term stake in a building do not conduct themselves in the same community-oriented way that's normal among those who do?

Re: The Modern Workforce

#34

Post by makeitsuckless » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 7:55 PM UTC

bernardlunn wrote: post #10

Can we please call BS on the sharing economy name. It is is the "squeeze cash out of spare personal resources economy" (resources being time, car, house etc).

Nah, that's another layer of the smokescreen. Lift the veil and you'll find an all out war against the rights of the "little people", be it consumer rights, labor rights, what have you.

The sharing economy is to ordinary people what strip mining is to nature.

Re: The Modern Workforce

#35

Post by steamy » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 7:56 PM UTC

doki_pen wrote: post #9

Turning ordinary employees in to independent contractors is a disturbing trend that is eliminating traditional workers rights. Although some new companies have legitimate reasons for hiring contractors, for most it's not part of some new amazing model of labor, it's simply a way to save money. Usually it's illegal, but the IRS is being destroyed by budget cuts and can no longer enforce the law. Filing against your em…

The author is a shill for the capitalists and corporations and he's just trying to make a buck here glamorizing underemployment and selling poverty and desperation to the masses in the name of modernity and progress.

Re: The Modern Workforce

#36

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:03 PM UTC

doki_pen wrote: post #9

Turning ordinary employees in to independent contractors is a disturbing trend that is eliminating traditional workers rights. Although some new companies have legitimate reasons for hiring contractors, for most it's not part of some new amazing model of labor, it's simply a way to save money. Usually it's illegal, but the IRS is being destroyed by budget cuts and can no longer enforce the law. Filing against your em…

It took 200 years and a lot of bloodshed to establish those working rights. It's ironic how they're now being destroyed and workers themselves let this happen. I guess the social memory is capped at the timespan of two generations.

Re: The Modern Workforce

#37

Post by jsprogrammer » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:06 PM UTC

benmathes wrote: post #21

doki_pen wrote: post #9

Turning ordinary employees in to independent contractors is a disturbing trend that is eliminating traditional workers rights. Although some new companies have legitimate reasons for hiring contractors, for most it's not part of some new amazing model of labor, it's simply a way to save money. Usually it's illegal, but the IRS is being destroyed by budget cuts and can no longer enforce the law. Filing against your em…

We'll probably have to go through a bunch of pain for this new working class until it gets so bad that the "union for mobile" is figured out and used to counterbalance the centralized power of the on-demand labor companies.

Alternatively, someone could create a model to the centralized company that just exploits labor without sharing ownership.

Re: The Modern Workforce

#38

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:06 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #31

eldavido wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, except (1) it's your obligation to change the law as a voter and (2) profit-maximizing companies have every obligation to act in their shareholder's best interests, within the bounds of the law . So really, it's up to us as citizens to decide what's fair, and get the appropriate legislation passed to change it.

>(2) profit-maximizing companies have every obligation to act in their shareholder's best interests, within the bounds of the law. is profit-maximization a law? because i don't see why for example a company can't be formed for the purpose of "betterment of humanity" and if it earns some profit on the way - great - and if not - it is ok too. As long as shareholders agree to that, ie. buy shares of such a company.

There are actually at least two such companies at the moment - Tesla Motors and SpaceX. For both the profit and market position is secondary to, respectively, electrification of transport and making humanity interplanetary. Elon Musk explicitly said on many occasions that in case of Tesla profits are secondary and they don't care if in next decades they'll be top player or disappear completely, as long as everyone is driving electric.

Re: The Modern Workforce

#39

Post by pc86 » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:12 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #31

eldavido wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, except (1) it's your obligation to change the law as a voter and (2) profit-maximizing companies have every obligation to act in their shareholder's best interests, within the bounds of the law . So really, it's up to us as citizens to decide what's fair, and get the appropriate legislation passed to change it.

>(2) profit-maximizing companies have every obligation to act in their shareholder's best interests, within the bounds of the law. is profit-maximization a law? because i don't see why for example a company can't be formed for the purpose of "betterment of humanity" and if it earns some profit on the way - great - and if not - it is ok too. As long as shareholders agree to that, ie. buy shares of such a company.

How many companies are you putting money into month after month that aren't turning a profit or providing you any sort of return?

I say month after month because if the company is not turning a profit, someone has to keep the lights on.

Re: The Modern Workforce

#40

Post by jjoonathan » Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 8:13 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #15

doki_pen wrote: post #9

Turning ordinary employees in to independent contractors is a disturbing trend that is eliminating traditional workers rights. Although some new companies have legitimate reasons for hiring contractors, for most it's not part of some new amazing model of labor, it's simply a way to save money. Usually it's illegal, but the IRS is being destroyed by budget cuts and can no longer enforce the law. Filing against your em…

It depends on the relationship, being an actual independent contractor is truly liberating. Choosing your own hours, working only on things you want to, setting your own salary based on how much you want to t work. There is real freedom in that as long as you get paid appropriately and actually get that freedom. Companies wanting to save money on benefits while having 9-5 workers with no freedom of choice of when or…

> It depends on the relationship

No, it depends on leverage. If you've got the most leverage, the relationship will be pleasant. If you don't, the relationship will be abusive. Just like everything else in capitalism. Supply/demand balance and friction matter far more than how "nice" your customer/employer is.

The distinction is crucially important: if relationship quality were an independent variable, everyone would be able to find decent relationships by hopping between jobs every now and again. Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The market determines what employers can and can't get away with, so someone stuck in a crummy relationship is likely to find a bunch of equally crummy relationships when they go job shopping.