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We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership

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Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership

#111
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people outside of the prairies understand the scale of some of these farms. The average Sask farm was 1668 acres as of 2011.

As that many acres is difficult to understand, that's a little over 2.6 square miles.

And John Deere makes combines as wide as 30 ft. So a 30ft. combine would have to drive 457.6 miles to harvest that farm. And that's not done at highway speed!

Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. The family owned farmers care too. For the big equipment, like combines, there's a handful of people everyone pays to have their fields harvested. This person get's compensation in the form of money and other services (someone else will plow their field for instance). People own their own tractors and share time to get things done, otherwise you'd have to own all of the equipment (which is only justified wh…

Iowan here. There are almost no family farms left at all. My neighbor would desperately like to be a farmer. But the scrubby 40-acre field across from his house just sold for $400,000. He'd get maybe 120 bushels of corn off of it. Current price per bushel: $3.80. So $456 income per acre == $18,240 per year. That's half the mortgate payments. Not to mention the cost of working the field. So a lost cause. The 13 farmer…

Why do they want to be a corn farmer? (Just curious. I don't know anything about the business of outdoor farming in Iowa.)

It seems like you could make the mortgage if you can grow specialty crops - http://www.profitableplantsdigest.com/10-most-profitable-spe...

Also, indoor growing is said to make certain crops grow 5x faster with 5x less resources. Here's one company that seems to be growing (they're opening a large facility in my state) - http://aerofarms.com/

Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership

#113
post #75

I'm not a lawyer, and I have a fairly pedestrian grasp of the DMCA. My understanding is that the law, created in the Internet's infancy, is meant to protect and prevent direct copyright infringment. Can anyone explain why they're allowed to (seemingly) abuse this act? They're not selling pirated copies of the tractor control software?

Under the DMCA anyone breaking a digital lock, no matter how trivial it is, has broken the law, regardless of whether the sell their results. For a good example of how it has been abused in the past, look up Lexmark and how they tried to use crypto code to lock out competitors from providing third-party ink refills. I'm not sure what the eventual outcome was there.

Fortunately Lexmark lost that one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexmark_International,_Inc._v._....

Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership

#114
post #52

I don't see how this is different than anything else software-driven. I "own" my iPhone, but I don't "own" iOS--I just have an implied license to use iOS with the phone.

Fundamentally there may be little difference, but there are definitely cultural differences. Every farm has a repair shop. While some HN readers might also try to fix their cell phones, the vast majority of the population are not comfortable with that idea in the first place. In fact, telephones were typically the property of the telephone company back in the day, so there has never really been an expectation of being able to fix your own phone.

Having farm equipment that you cannot repair yourself is a significant deviation away from the status quo. Farm equipment breaks down frequently - more frequently than you might even imagine - so not being able to repair said equipment does raise alarms for some people. For field crops, you often only have a window of days to plant/harvest, so downtime can cost a fortune.

Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership

#115
The USPTO is currently taking "reply" comments on this very matter (and other similar matters) http://copyright.gov/1201/

Proposed exemptions: http://copyright.gov/1201/docs/list-proposed-classes-1201.pd...

The initial comment period has lapsed. (Reply Comment Period Closes May 1, 2015)

>>USPTO Solicitation for comments on proposed rulemaking:

>>Section 1201 Exemptions to Prohibition Against Circumvention of Technological Measures Protecting Copyrighted Works: Second Round of Comments

>>The comments below were filed by parties who oppose the adoption of a proposed exemption. The initial round of comments were filed by proponents and other members of the public who support the adoption of a proposed exemption, as well as parties that neither support nor oppose an exemption.

http://copyright.gov/1201/2015/comments-032715/

>Due Dates for Public Comments and Associated Evidence

>The first round of public comment closed on February 6, 2015, and was limited to submissions from the proponents (i.e., those parties who proposed exemptions during the petition phase) and other members of the public who support the adoption of a proposed exemption, as well as any members of the public who neither support nor oppose an exemption but seek only to share pertinent information about a specific proposal. Any associated documentary and/or multimedia evidence was due by this date.

>The second round of public comment closes on March 27, 2015, and will be limited to members of the public who oppose an exemption. Opponents should present the full legal and evidentiary basis for their opposition. Any associated documentary and/or multimedia evidence must also be submitted by this date.

>The third round of public comment closes on May 1, 2015, and will be limited to proponents and supporters of particular proposals, and those who neither support nor oppose a proposal, in either case who seek to reply to points made in the earlier rounds of comments. Reply comments should not raise new matters, but instead be limited to addressing arguments and evidence presented by others. Any associated documentary and/or multimedia evidence must also be submitted by this date.

Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership

#116
Sorry if it upsets people, but Ownership has been gradually been destroyed over the years and this is just another example.

I could go on a Libertarian rant, but I'm sure you've already heard about cars being raided without a reason or private data being exposed.

Sad to live in a world like this.

Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. The family owned farmers care too. For the big equipment, like combines, there's a handful of people everyone pays to have their fields harvested. This person get's compensation in the form of money and other services (someone else will plow their field for instance). People own their own tractors and share time to get things done, otherwise you'd have to own all of the equipment (which is only justified wh…

Iowan here. There are almost no family farms left at all. My neighbor would desperately like to be a farmer. But the scrubby 40-acre field across from his house just sold for $400,000. He'd get maybe 120 bushels of corn off of it. Current price per bushel: $3.80. So $456 income per acre == $18,240 per year. That's half the mortgate payments. Not to mention the cost of working the field. So a lost cause. The 13 farmer…

Which town? I'd imagine this is pretty common in places near Des Moines/Cedar Rapids suburb type towns. My observations come from living in Blakesburg, IA -- town of 400 people.

Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polyculture farming may be the next big thing in farming, enabled by machine vision automated systems. A typical small farmer in Saskatchewan can harvest 100-200 acres of wheat by himself on a single day using a modern combine harvester. Manual harvesting is not an option.

I don't think people outside of the prairies understand the scale of some of these farms. The average Sask farm was 1668 acres as of 2011.

And that 1668 acre farm is not a corporate farm, it's a family farm run by a single operator without hired hands.

Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership

#119
post #52

I don't see how this is different than anything else software-driven. I "own" my iPhone, but I don't "own" iOS--I just have an implied license to use iOS with the phone.

> implied license to use iOS

The license isn't implied. It's right there in the EULA to which you agreed when you opened the box and turned the phone on for the first time.

Re: We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Idea of Ownership

#120
post #89
post #12

The people who have the money to buy the mega-tractors you see in the article don't care. That's why, unless someone outside the industry makes a stink, nothing will happen. These are giga-corporations who are 'family owned' in name only. If they don't rent, they operate that machine for a few years, play the tax game, and trade it even-money for a new one. To them, ownership doesn't matter. Their service contracts w…

"All they care about is whether or not it works." Which is why they care more about this issue than someone without a mega-tractor. These vehicles need to be operational when they're called upon, every minute of downtime costs a substantial amount of money that adds up incredibly fast. Sure, they have service contracts but waiting on a technician and waiting even longer for a replacement part is out of the question.…

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