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1.5 Million Missing Black Men

nytimes.com

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Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#281

Post by flatfilefan »

dmix wrote: post #13

> The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce, while men, who face an abundant supply of potential mates, don’t need to compete as hard to find one. As a result, Mr. Charles said, “men seem less likely to commit to romantic relationships, or to work hard to maintain them.” Interesting, I never thought about this side-effect of mass incarceration. Another aggravating factor in…

For the Middle East it can be much simpler than that. I read something like Middle East experiences a population boom with like 50% of population being younger than 25. (exact number may differ) With so many young men there is not enough land from parents for them to inherit. With no decent education to increase productivity and a rigid political structure there is a huge pressure in the society building up.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#282

Post by burkaman »

qnaal wrote: post #280
burkaman wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just sounds like another version of separate but equal. I understand the logic, but we want to work toward one big united community, not legally define racial communities. It's pretty obvious historically that separation doesn't work at all.

separation doesn't work for what?

It doesn't solve the problems of racial inequalities, and it generally makes them a lot worse.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#283

Post by selimthegrim »

maceo wrote: post #178
SovietDissident wrote: post #68

Moynihan in 1965, writing at the Labor Dept.: "The steady expansion of welfare programs can be taken as a measure of the steady disintegration of the Negro family structure over the past generation in the United States." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Family:_The_Case_For_... The welfare state and the drug war have had devastating effects on the U.S. black population. To take just one statistic, when Moynihan…

Moynihan was snubbed for writing the report and liberals and conservatives alike have since been very afraid to comment on the state of black families in the US. The black family unit in the US has been under attack for over 500 years. During slavery, blacks were prohibited from marrying and relationships between father, mother, and children were torn apart at the slaveowners whim. Slavery was still in existence 150…

If you ever needed a reminder on institutionalized Jim Crow let these fit the bill for a good long while:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_Freedom_Died:_The_Colfa...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

https://books.google.com/books?id=ISoAAQAAQBAJ&lpg=PT62&ots=...

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#284

Post by michaelchisari »

caseysoftware wrote: post #236
michaelchisari wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in places with a lot more men than women both men and women converge on wanting a long term relationship, but in places with a lot more women than men There's also the narrative that places where men outnumber women, men become increasingly competitive and violent towards women and each other. An example is any blue collar "boom" town like North Dakota's fracking industry.

Do you have a source on that? I haven't heard of any analysis on this front.

If you search "north dakota gender imbalance", you'll get a lot of narratives of it, but I can't point to statistical evidence.

https://www.google.com/#q=north%20dakota%20gender%20imbalanc...

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#285

Post by yummyfajitas »

anigbrowl wrote: post #249
yummyfajitas wrote: post #17

The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce,...The imbalance has also forced women to rely on themselves — often alone... There is a pretty obvious solution to this problem which has been legal since 1967. It works well and the babies come out really cute. Weird how the NYT glosses that over...

It works well and the babies come out really cute. All right, let's run this scenario forward in time. You meet a nice black lady, you fall in love, get married, and have a son. Now, while I hope things will be better in future, chances are that many structural racial disparities will still exist 10, 15, 20 years from now, though hopefully to a lesser degree. So your hypothetical son comes to you in the year 2030 and…

I think you've lost the thread. The problem I described as solved was "I can't get a date that matches my extremely specific qualifications". And yes, if that was my son's problem, I'd tell him to either lift and be awesome or accept being forever alone.

As for requiring some specific experience to be a good parent, I find the idea a bit ridiculous. There are a variety of problems I haven't experienced and likely can't solve for my son. Experiencing racism from the larger society is, while not something I can solve, something I have experienced. So what?

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#286

Post by selimthegrim »

javert wrote: post #116
zoner wrote: post #58

Black women are unapproachable. Not sure why is that. Are white males not attractive in black women eyes? The effect is the reverse with white women as they tend to flirt with black man, hence the interracial children are mostly from black males and white females. I don't have a study to support this, but I do have personal experience.

There are a lot of reasons for this, perhaps even more important reasons, but yes, black women are unapprochable as a white man. While other people interpret my normal social awkwardness/aloofness as just what it is, black women tend to take offense and think it's racist. There's nothing I can do to change that aspect of myself. I don't know why this doesn't happen with black men, it just doesn't really seem to, thou…

Where are you approaching them? Have you even bothered trying, say, bars in black neighborhoods (I have) instead of palace where they're in the minority and in the defensive? Think about that for a second and ask yourself why not.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#287

Post by haberman »

omonra wrote: post #270
haberman wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Presumably large, racially discriminatory social programs and cultural programming such as have been tried for the last 40 years are called for to remedy the problem. There are plenty of obvious things that need fixing, even if you don't believe at all in affirmative action-like programs: 1. Clear conflicts of interest in the criminal justice system, like regular prosecutors being responsible for bringing charges a…

I'm personally not convinced why the three points you raised are affecting blacks more than anybody else. Ie - they are all unquantifiable things with no clear bearing on blacks vs poor whites or other disadvantaged groups. Yes we have hard figures - such as the murder rate ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/murder-rate-for... ): The homicide rate for black male victims was 31.67 per 100,000. In compariso…

> I'm personally not convinced why the three points you raised are affecting blacks more than anybody else.

Here's the thing: even if I never convince you of that, all you have to be convinced of is these things are a problem and should be fixed.

Hopefully you believe that obvious conflicts of interest should not exist?

Hopefully you believe that cops should not shoot unarmed people in the back while they are running away, and then plant evidence on them?

Great. Because that's all it takes to believe that these are problems worth fixing.

If you instead drag your feet and say that it's all black people's fault and they should fix it, you're doing exactly what you accuse them of doing.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#288

Post by sukilot »

itsybitsy wrote: post #230
strommen wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly highbrow research, but OkCupid has an interesting post indicating that black women are less likely to get replies in their online dating service: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-...

The OkCupid research shouldn't be presented as some universal scientific fact. It doesn't account for socioeconomic backgrounds for one, nor does it account for country of origin. Having lived in Africa, Europe and the US, it's clear that interracial dating carries much more historical baggage in the US than it does in Europe and Africa. It's also probably clear to most people in the US, that acceptance of interracia…

A fact being sociological doesn't make it false.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#289

Post by Snesker »

hackuser wrote: post #195
_dark_matter_ wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other reply is completely correct. You are misinterpreting what Moynihan meant when he wrote: >"The steady expansion of welfare programs can be taken as a measure of the steady disintegration of the Negro family structure over the past generation in the United States." What he meant was that, as we see a crumbling of black family structure, they will require greater help, which came through welfare. Here is the h…

The country's response to a crisis of the black American family was to imprison a large number of black males, adding another crisis to the situation. Considering that and other forms of discrimination, it's amazing that the black middle-class has expanded so much.

Imprisoning someone isn't a response to anything but crime.

Imprisonment for a crime is not discrimination. You're insane.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#290

Post by stickfigure »

omonra wrote: post #279
stickfigure wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be perfectly happy to accept a massive reduction in organized crime, even if it doesn't end. Crime is not perfectly fungible. There just isn't another victimless crime available with this kind of popularity and profitability.

I'm all for decriminalizing drugs, no argument from me on that. However Portugal homicide rate went up by 40% after they did it ( https://fullfact.org/factchecks/Portugal_decriminalisation_d... ). So not sure it's the silver bullet people expet.

That document pretty explicitly says it has no idea if the statistic is linked to drug policy.

However, even if we posit that the correlation is significant, I'm not sure what you can read into this. While comparatively enlightened, Portugal did not legalize drug possession and didn't decriminalize vending of drugs. So organized crime is still the one making (and fighting over) all the money.

To this day, the best example of the social effects of repealing prohibition is the repeal of Prohibition.

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