1.5 Million Missing Black Men • Hacker News Board

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#181

Post by hackuser » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:06 PM UTC

javert wrote: post #108

kaa2102 wrote: post #20

I'm a Black Man. Growing up there was a realization that being alive and out of trouble over the age of 21 was an accomplishment. This would extend to middle class. Due to a history of American apartheid, there were often just a few degrees of separation between middle class and working/poor class kin.

In the US we had segregation, not apartheid. There is a difference. As a white man living in the South, we still have segregation in practice. I rarely had interaction with blacks because they did different things and took different classes at school. We all went to the same schools---just didn't have the same classes or have the same social circles. Not much shared in the way of culture. I have had some black friend…

> There is nothing white people can do to fix this. Blacks have always decided what kind of culture they want to have and they will continue to do so.

This is so clearly untrue that I wonder if it's worth pointing out the obvious. In fact, black-skinned Americans rarely have had the option of self-determination, and mostly that is due to white-skinned contemporaries who enslaved them, forced them into ghettos, segregated them in public life, and denied them political rights, and social and economic opportunity.

More concretely, in the southeastern United States, blacks were slaves (something local whites fought a war to try to preserve; take a step back and think how bizarre that is) and after that oppressed: They couldn't eat in the same restaurants, go to the same schools work the same jobs, live in the same neighborhoods, sleep at the same hotels; talking to a white-skinned women could result in a black-skinned male being lynched. Even today, there is much discrimination; consider whether they can join certain college fraternities in Oklahoma, for example, or walk the streets without being harassed or worse.

To suggest social segregation is due to the choices of black-skinned Americans is absurd.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#182

Post by dataker » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:06 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #109

chaostheory wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find the study to cite, but if I remember correctly an old study found that while most males of all ethnicities are open to relationships with females of different ethnicities given attractive qualities are sufficient (I could be wrong but only physical attraction was measured in this study); they found that most females tend to only go for males within their own ethnic group. The exception was Asian women wi…

In Asian culture Asian woman always have a strong preference for other Asians (this is of course generalizing across the different Asian cultures), especially from the same Asian race. But there's a strong fetishizing of Asian women by certain non-Asian men so there's a disproportionate amount of Asian-women-chasing by white men that gets misconstrued as preference by Asian women. If everyone preferred blue M&Ms, you…

>The Asian women fetish is quite unique in that there's really nothing else like it for women of another race present in American culture

I wouldn't say it's a fetish for Asian girls(physical traits and sexuality). What attracts many white males is the fact many Asian women are usually more mature, intelligent and feminine than others.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#183

Post by eru » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:07 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #171

mc32 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In china where men outnumber women due to family preference for a male heir, it has resulted in straight men having to compete with each other on an economic status basis to attract women, what happens in north Dakota is not a universal phenomenon.

This is vastly overstated. Historically there are 1.05 male births per 1 female birth without any technical sex selection going on. Which for a population the size of China works out to an extra ~33 million men. Interestingly in the US and globally men of every age but ~10 years old die more frequently than men so older woman significantly out number older men. It's a fairly significant gap which is one of the reason…

> Historically 1.05 Men have been born per 1 woman without any technical sex selection going on.

Don't male infants die slightly more, too?

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#184

Post by illumen » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:08 PM UTC

Taniwha wrote: post #157

javert wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US we had segregation, not apartheid. There is a difference. As a white man living in the South, we still have segregation in practice. I rarely had interaction with blacks because they did different things and took different classes at school. We all went to the same schools---just didn't have the same classes or have the same social circles. Not much shared in the way of culture. I have had some black friend…

well that and slavery

Is it slavery if people are working for almost free in prison because of some absurd crime and a bullshit justice system? Yes.

Therefore slavery still exists. It just got sneaky.

Well sort of sneaky - the English were calling their white slaves convicts. When people did crimes like steal bread, they could be sent all the way across the oceans on six month voyages to work. Yeah, they could eventually be free... but even if they managed that; then getting back was near impossible for most.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#185

Post by random_pr » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:08 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #128

The numbers are boggling. I don't understand how Americans tolerate such a blatantly racist prison system. http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

because it isn't obviously racist. you can't just say "more african americans and hispanics are arrested than whites or asians, therefore, police are targeting african americans and hispanics unfairly." that's not how it works.

wrt. drug-related crimes, sure, there seems to be a weird disparity (does it take into account 'casual' drug users vs. 'hardcore' drug users?).

wrt. violent crime, however, the percent of arrestees who are black matches very closely with the percent of victims who say their assailant was black. and this has been constant throughout thirty years of crime victimization surveys. see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_St... and https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=2560...

you can't say that african americans are arrested at unfair rates. it's more nuanced than that: african americans are probably arrested unfairly for drug-related crimes, but they probably aren't for violent crimes.

unfortunately, I think this is a compounding problem: more african american men in prison means more single-parent households (that are probably also in poverty), which means more crime, which means more african american men in prison.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#186

Post by mrxd » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:08 PM UTC

Mizza wrote: post #47

dmix wrote: post #13

> The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce, while men, who face an abundant supply of potential mates, don’t need to compete as hard to find one. As a result, Mr. Charles said, “men seem less likely to commit to romantic relationships, or to work hard to maintain them.” Interesting, I never thought about this side-effect of mass incarceration. Another aggravating factor in…

> women are arguably less war-prone than men I don't think are actually any studies that support this, unfortunately. War simply isn't a consequence of gender, it is a consequence of ideology and fear.

There's a long history of wars ostensibly being fought on behalf of women, and women pressuring men into enlisting. One example is the Order of the White Feather. During WW1 and WW2, women would shame men who weren't wearing a uniform by presenting them with a white feather, a symbol of cowardice. Propaganda frequently justifies the need for war by claiming that it is about defending women, and nations are often personified as women, e.g. Liberty, Columbia, Lady Britannia, etc.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#187

Post by pyre » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:09 PM UTC

steamy wrote: post #64

dmix wrote: post #13

> The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce, while men, who face an abundant supply of potential mates, don’t need to compete as hard to find one. As a result, Mr. Charles said, “men seem less likely to commit to romantic relationships, or to work hard to maintain them.” Interesting, I never thought about this side-effect of mass incarceration. Another aggravating factor in…

I think Osama Bin Laden had so many life-stabilizers i.e. women throughout his lifetime and yet he pursued the terrorist career with vengeance till the last breath.

You can't take a single person as proof or disproof of anything (except maybe absolute statements, which the OP didn't make).

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#188

Post by pacifist » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:09 PM UTC

roymurdock wrote: post #159

woah wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment went a bit off topic, but I'm guessing you are a developer and will be entering into a tech economy powered by the QE you find so evil.

I tried my best to address of [1] the causes of extremism and [2] the effects of male-female relationships on extremism. I study economics and am facing unemployment upon graduation. I'm thinking of travelling, teaching, and/or working for an NGO or a non-profit. I don't find QE evil. I find it to be an ineffective solution to a problem caused by the corruption and negligence of a select cohort of my elders who hold…

While reading your original post and before I got to the part about bitcoin I was thinking bitcoin might be a good way to respond to the problems of greed and corruption you point out. It's early days for crypto currency so we're still in a bit of a wild west show. Just want to let you know other people are thinking along those lines too. Thanks for the thoughtful post.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#189

Post by Retric » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:11 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #183

Retric wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is vastly overstated. Historically there are 1.05 male births per 1 female birth without any technical sex selection going on. Which for a population the size of China works out to an extra ~33 million men. Interestingly in the US and globally men of every age but ~10 years old die more frequently than men so older woman significantly out number older men. It's a fairly significant gap which is one of the reason…

> Historically 1.05 Men have been born per 1 woman without any technical sex selection going on. Don't male infants die slightly more, too?

Yes, but you can say the same thing for 2 year olds or 22 year olds. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080324173552.ht... The 1.05:1 ratio applies at birth, and men steadily die faster after that.

That said, in devoloped nations like the US few infants die so the difference is not that large.

Edit: see page 7 http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr62/nvsr62_07.pdf Per 100,000 births of each gender, 99,301 men see 1, vs 99,427 females a gap of 127. By 30 the gap is 1,148 (97,400 vs 98,548)

At 75 it's 62,720:74,464 a gap of -11,744 which is even larger when you consider the population is ~2/3 the size.

And at 100 the absolute gap is only 1,900 (997 : 2897) but there are ~3x as many woman as men.

PS: Edited the line you quoted for clarity.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#190

Post by innguest » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

pyrocat wrote: post #168

javert wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US we had segregation, not apartheid. There is a difference. As a white man living in the South, we still have segregation in practice. I rarely had interaction with blacks because they did different things and took different classes at school. We all went to the same schools---just didn't have the same classes or have the same social circles. Not much shared in the way of culture. I have had some black friend…

> There is nothing white people can do to fix this. Well, except confronting our own biases, encouraging diverse hiring practices, confronting both overt and covert racism when we see it, educating ourselves on racial privilege, fighting racial profiling and sentencing in our justice system, and just in general fighting for racial equality.

You're a Cultural Marxism peddler.

I am white and I think I am in the very same group as blacks and all other races, namely the group called "individuals". All we need to do is fight for individual rights and teach people respect is earned on an individual basis. Nothing can be assumed from group membership in real life; every leftist would agree with this statement, yet you want to make laws based on group membership. Nothing can be assumed based on group membership. Whoever does is the true racist. Stop peddling your divisive ideologies. Stop drawing lines around people. We drew lines around places in maps and today we have wars over those lines. Your lines around people create the same kind of conflicts on a smaller scale. Please stop it. There's only one kind of person, the individual. Let's protect individual rights and everyone will be OK, and by that I mean everyone, not just the groups your crony leftists select to be privileged to the detriment of some other group's disadvantage.

You can try and create "race", "religion", "gender" labels all you want but to me there's only one sort of person, the individual, and nothing can be said about an individual a priori.

Stop propagating divisiveness.