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1.5 Million Missing Black Men

nytimes.com

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Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#41

Post by gonehome »

dmix wrote: post #13

> The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce, while men, who face an abundant supply of potential mates, don’t need to compete as hard to find one. As a result, Mr. Charles said, “men seem less likely to commit to romantic relationships, or to work hard to maintain them.” Interesting, I never thought about this side-effect of mass incarceration. Another aggravating factor in…

I remember reading somewhere (probably here) that the same effect is shown in areas with heavily skewed male/female ratios in general. That in places with a lot more men than women both men and women converge on wanting a long term relationship, but in places with a lot more women than men - men would typically prefer not having a relationship i.e. more single mothers in NYC than on the west coast.

There was also a subtext idea about women (in general) being competitive and 'slut shaming' as an evolved mechanism to collude with each other and push the sexual availability/access down in order force men to have to invest more time/effort/resources into a relationship. I'll try and see if I can find whatever it was - the idea was cool (if not obvious) and the unintentional collusion part didn't occur to me.

There's probably a lot at play though it's hard to make any real statements about evolved behavior outside of cultural pressure and without a lot of time to look at things.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#42

Post by [deleted] »

dmix wrote: post #13

> The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce, while men, who face an abundant supply of potential mates, don’t need to compete as hard to find one. As a result, Mr. Charles said, “men seem less likely to commit to romantic relationships, or to work hard to maintain them.” Interesting, I never thought about this side-effect of mass incarceration. Another aggravating factor in…

[deleted]

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#43

Post by raldi »

Someone1234 wrote: post #23
yummyfajitas wrote: post #17

The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce,...The imbalance has also forced women to rely on themselves — often alone... There is a pretty obvious solution to this problem which has been legal since 1967. It works well and the babies come out really cute. Weird how the NYT glosses that over...

Interracial marriage only works as a "solution" if there were an inverse imbalance in other racial communities to supply the men needed to fulfil the shortfall. It also completely ignores the fact that people in the black communities may not wish to date people from other races. it isn't a breading farm after all, people's choices matter a lot. If black woman want to date a black man, that is completely normal/unders…

> Interracial marriage only works as a "solution" if there were an inverse imbalance in other racial communities to supply the men needed to fulfil the shortfall.

There is: http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2003/03/14/Interracial-marriage-...

"Asian women had white husbands 3.08 times more often than Asian men had white wives. [...] Oddly enough, the 1990 ratios for black-white and white-Asian marriages were mirror images of each other."

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#44

Post by ars »

Historically this was solved by polygamy. (The cause of the missing men back then was usually war and travel danger on business expeditions.)

Polygamy is still occurring, except without the official status of wife.

Makes me wonder if the benefits of outlawing polygamy in the US might not outweigh the harm - especially because it happens anyway.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#45

Post by eru »

ggchappell wrote: post #35
dccoolgai wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This dynamic has always frightened me about China's "one child" generation coming of age. Instead of a group of disaffected Jihadists, you have a large and influential political force in an increasingly belligerent and powerful nation.

Except they're not "coming of age"; they already have. Enforcement of the one-child policy started in 1980. The first children born under it are turning 35 these days. I think your worry is a very reasonable one, but it has not become a reality. I wonder why not.

The one child policy has not always and everywhere been enforce with full power. You get a certain buffer effect from men getting a younger female companion: measured in person years, you'll have more single-men-years than single-women-years this way.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#46

Post by omonra »

Sorry to be the voice of Bill Cosby but my read of this is that black men are killing each other and then going to prison for it (drug charges are responsible for maybe 20% of people in prison - ie stats would still be largely same without the drug war).

And somehow that's everybody else's fault?

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#47

Post by Mizza »

dmix wrote: post #13

> The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce, while men, who face an abundant supply of potential mates, don’t need to compete as hard to find one. As a result, Mr. Charles said, “men seem less likely to commit to romantic relationships, or to work hard to maintain them.” Interesting, I never thought about this side-effect of mass incarceration. Another aggravating factor in…

> women are arguably less war-prone than men

I don't think are actually any studies that support this, unfortunately. War simply isn't a consequence of gender, it is a consequence of ideology and fear.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#48

Post by Someone1234 »

infruset wrote: post #40
Someone1234 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interracial marriage only works as a "solution" if there were an inverse imbalance in other racial communities to supply the men needed to fulfil the shortfall. It also completely ignores the fact that people in the black communities may not wish to date people from other races. it isn't a breading farm after all, people's choices matter a lot. If black woman want to date a black man, that is completely normal/unders…

You are starting from the assumption that it is normal that people date inside of their "race". This is an assumption that is very often made by Hollywood movies and which I find offensive, all the more because it is self-fulfilling: if you only see people of the same skin color dating one another, you're probably less likely to imagine yourself outside of the norm you perceive.

Your offense is of no concern to me.

The stats back up that people prefer to date within their own race when they can. Ultimately I am just arguing that people's choice is important to the whole topic, if black women would prefer to date black men, pointing out that they could date white or asian men won't help the situation.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#49

Post by michaelchisari »

gonehome wrote: post #41
dmix wrote: post #13

> The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce, while men, who face an abundant supply of potential mates, don’t need to compete as hard to find one. As a result, Mr. Charles said, “men seem less likely to commit to romantic relationships, or to work hard to maintain them.” Interesting, I never thought about this side-effect of mass incarceration. Another aggravating factor in…

I remember reading somewhere (probably here) that the same effect is shown in areas with heavily skewed male/female ratios in general. That in places with a lot more men than women both men and women converge on wanting a long term relationship, but in places with a lot more women than men - men would typically prefer not having a relationship i.e. more single mothers in NYC than on the west coast. There was also a s…

in places with a lot more men than women both men and women converge on wanting a long term relationship, but in places with a lot more women than men

There's also the narrative that places where men outnumber women, men become increasingly competitive and violent towards women and each other. An example is any blue collar "boom" town like North Dakota's fracking industry.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#50

Post by erickhill »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #21
dmix wrote: post #13

> The black women left behind find that potential partners of the same race are scarce, while men, who face an abundant supply of potential mates, don’t need to compete as hard to find one. As a result, Mr. Charles said, “men seem less likely to commit to romantic relationships, or to work hard to maintain them.” Interesting, I never thought about this side-effect of mass incarceration. Another aggravating factor in…

Yet another reason why a society only is as stable and wholesome as its average nuclear family unit.

I know this is treading off-topic, but interestingly, "lefty wacko uber-progressive" Seattle (I put that in quotes as it's not my thoughts, but some of the commenters found on The Seattle Times would likely describe it as such) has the highest percentage of nuclear families in the 50 largest cities in the U.S.

Source: http://blogs.seattletimes.com/fyi-guy/2014/12/28/end-of-the-...

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