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Why we don't sell ads – WhatsApp Blog

blog.whatsapp.com

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Re: Why we don't sell ads – WhatsApp Blog

#31

Post by sososoko »

mschuster91 wrote: post #23
sososoko wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how is it end to end when data is stored on their servers, i would assume its stored without encryption right?

You can do end-to-end encryption just like with emails. Just the metadata (sender, recipient) needs to be plaintext.

Ahh, i think i get it. but that brings us back to my question; how is the data store on the server, Encrypted or plaintext? if its encrypted would that mean decryption happens per each session. e.g. when using whatsapp web ( could it be why they need the phone to be online? )

Re: Why we don't sell ads – WhatsApp Blog

#32

Post by Spearchucker »

gearhart wrote: post #27
santiagobasulto wrote: post #15

I'm wondering why did facebook buy WhatsApp? Oh, maybe to get better data from us to sell... yeah, Ads.

All opinion, no sources: I've always considered it as a defensive play rather than a positive one - Facebook have this beautifully well-entrenched network effect that defends their position - their unique selling point is that they know the world's social graph, and it's terribly difficult for anybody else to try to build that data as long as Facebook provides an acceptable alternative to any new communication medium…

I'd love to see a quantification of the value of knowing the world's social graph. Specifically how that makes my life easier.

Re: Why we don't sell ads – WhatsApp Blog

#33

Post by yoz-y »

manigandham wrote: post #6

Messaging/chat are inherently bad apps for advertising anyway. This post was also from 2012, before selling to Facebook for 19B.

I'd say that messaging is amazing for advertising. Consider this scenario: - you come to a restaurant - you see a QR code on the menu, if you flash the code and share it with your friends the restaurant will give you a discount

In this case the customer is motivated to use the coupon because they have a discount and their friends are more likely to come because they trust the poster.

First time I've seen this method was in China but I would not be surprised if it were actually quite common (haven't seen in in Europe so far though)

Re: Why we don't sell ads – WhatsApp Blog

#34

Post by IanCal »

netcan wrote: post #30
lewisl9029 wrote: post #9

I do actually find their monetization strategy laudable. Selling your product to users is, in my view, a far more ethical monetization strategy than selling your users to advertisers, and tends to result in far less potential conflicts of interest. That said, I also believe communication in general is too important to be left to proprietary software, which is why I won't be using WhatsApp anytime soon.

If you want to have a messaging app, everyone needs to have it. If everyone needs to have it it needs to be free. Even if you could run this app by charging users just 50c, it would fail and get beat by an app that was free.

> If you want to have a messaging app, everyone needs to have it.

The people I want to talk to most need to have it.

> If everyone needs to have it it needs to be free.

Or at a cost they're willing to pay.

> Even if you could run this app by charging users just 50c, it would fail and get beat by an app that was free.

Assuming of course that the other app could sustain itself.

I don't understand your argument. SMS worked just fine for a long time and is still used, yet it costs money either monthly or per message. Telephone calls cost money. Sending letters costs money. I'd hardly count those as failures when it comes to messaging mediums.

Re: Why we don't sell ads – WhatsApp Blog

#35

Post by JonFish85 »

yoz-y wrote: post #33
manigandham wrote: post #6

Messaging/chat are inherently bad apps for advertising anyway. This post was also from 2012, before selling to Facebook for 19B.

I'd say that messaging is amazing for advertising. Consider this scenario: - you come to a restaurant - you see a QR code on the menu, if you flash the code and share it with your friends the restaurant will give you a discount In this case the customer is motivated to use the coupon because they have a discount and their friends are more likely to come because they trust the poster. First time I've seen this method…

See I feel like this is a slippery slope. Speaking 100% anecdotally, a text message / direct message like that is expected to be personal communication; if my friends start bombarding me with ads in my text messages, we're going to have a serious talk.

Via email is fine, mostly because it's expected that I'll be spammed. But it'd feel much more intrusive if my friends started texting me stupid codes to save 5% on their burrito.

Re: Why we don't sell ads – WhatsApp Blog

#36

Post by yoz-y »

IanCal wrote: post #34
netcan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to have a messaging app, everyone needs to have it. If everyone needs to have it it needs to be free. Even if you could run this app by charging users just 50c, it would fail and get beat by an app that was free.

> If you want to have a messaging app, everyone needs to have it. The people I want to talk to most need to have it. > If everyone needs to have it it needs to be free. Or at a cost they're willing to pay. > Even if you could run this app by charging users just 50c, it would fail and get beat by an app that was free. Assuming of course that the other app could sustain itself. I don't understand your argument. SMS wor…

SMS had the advantage that everybody had SMS. This is not the case at all for new messaging services.

People do not want to use another messaging service, there are already too many. WhatsApp was one of the first and came in time where connectivity got barely good enough to support the service, that gave them a huge advantage.

Re: Why we don't sell ads – WhatsApp Blog

#37

Post by gearhart »

Spearchucker wrote: post #32
gearhart wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All opinion, no sources: I've always considered it as a defensive play rather than a positive one - Facebook have this beautifully well-entrenched network effect that defends their position - their unique selling point is that they know the world's social graph, and it's terribly difficult for anybody else to try to build that data as long as Facebook provides an acceptable alternative to any new communication medium…

I'd love to see a quantification of the value of knowing the world's social graph. Specifically how that makes my life easier.

Flippantly repeating a HN mantra: who cares about making your life easier, you're the product, not the customer.

More seriously though, the value of knowing the world's social graph is certainly more complicated than I feel qualified to talk about, but it's pretty evident that it has value to advertisers, which is really what's important.

Re: Why we don't sell ads – WhatsApp Blog

#38

Post by Psion7 »

WhatsApp isn't about putting ads into the app but for better data collection. That is why Facebook bought them. Facebook sells ads and targeting data and one of the best ways to analyse a persons life to better target them for ads is from their personal, non-public communication. You will talk about many more things in private conversation with friends and family than you will publicly on your Facebook profile.

A simple example is you are talking to a few friends on WhatsApp about booking a holiday somewhere, you talk about locations, dates, prices, etc. all in private, now Facebook can take all that data and using their massive Facebook tracking system start advertising offers for hotels in the places you are looking at going, shops you often mention that sell clothes for your holiday, travel insurance, etc, etc.

You don't need to stick ads IN the app to monetise it. In fact keeping it clean and ad free is the best thing to do as it keeps your users happy and using your app more which in turn leads to more and more data collection.

I think the $1 a year thing is a load of crap that is used to distract people away from the whole "if it is free you are the product" idea. If WhatsApp looks like it is not free because you have to pay $1 a year then psychologically you "trust" it more because it is something you pay for rather than something that is analysing every thing you ever say to build a better advertising profile. Also has anyone actually ever paid that $1? I don't know anyone who has, they always get some "promotion" that gives them another year free for being a loyal WhatsApp user.

Re: Why we don't sell ads – WhatsApp Blog

#40

Post by dhekir »

yoz-y wrote: post #33
manigandham wrote: post #6

Messaging/chat are inherently bad apps for advertising anyway. This post was also from 2012, before selling to Facebook for 19B.

I'd say that messaging is amazing for advertising. Consider this scenario: - you come to a restaurant - you see a QR code on the menu, if you flash the code and share it with your friends the restaurant will give you a discount In this case the customer is motivated to use the coupon because they have a discount and their friends are more likely to come because they trust the poster. First time I've seen this method…

> because they trust the poster.

Until they realize it's just spam. Or they already know it and simply ignore such messages (e.g. LinkedIn recommendations, automatic invitations from random websites parsing your contact list...).

One rare instance where this seems to work (at least partially) is when both sender and receiver share some benefit from the advertisement, e.g. as when mobile phone operators offer discounts for inviting new users, both to the current user and to the newly invited one. So, if your coupon might get me some future discount should I go to that restaurant, then yes, maybe I'd consider it...

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