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Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

nytimes.com

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Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#71

Interesting that there was no mention of Modafinil. I believe that one of the most "abused" drugs for "productivity" is currently Modafinil, far more powerful than Adderall and without all those side effects. Of course, long term side effects are unknown.

Modafinil doesn't even come close to amphetamine. And I doubt anyone with therapeutic amphetamine experience would disagree.

I've been taking Adderall XR and Vyvanse for eight years. Now that I live in Mexico where amphetamine isn't prescribed but you can buy Modafinil over the counter, I gave Modafinil a shot.

It's pretty forgettable. That it only comes in instant tablets is also a deal-breaker.

While I continue to experiment with Modafinil, it's worth the $500 round-trip back to Austin just to re-up my 3-month supply of Vyvanse.

Also, amphetamine is used on every American college campus, not Modafinil. Almost everyone has heard of Adderall even if they've never taken it.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#72
post #4

Something will replace coffee eventually. I refuse to believe that technology will never find a better productivity enhancer, with near-zero side effects like coffee. Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your w…

> Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your work requires steady output instead of rare bursts, it's questionable whether it even surpasses coffee because of these downsides.

If that's your experience, then you need to take an extended-release capsule and halve your dose.

It's amphetamine. Its dose-to-efficacy graph is linear.

If you're losing a day of productivity on off-days, then you're simply taking too much on on-days.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#73
post #4

Something will replace coffee eventually. I refuse to believe that technology will never find a better productivity enhancer, with near-zero side effects like coffee. Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your w…

The military ran tests comparing the efficacy of caffeine and amphetamine. Amphetamine was not shown to improve performance over caffeine, although it gave the perception that performance was improved.

That conclusion is about as silly as a study that concludes that snorting cocaine was not shown to improve euphoria over caffeine.

It's something you might believe until you actually try amphetamine.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#74

How does somebody tell if they actually have ADHD or they are just easily distracted? Isn't "Do they respond to ADHD medication?" our only test?

> Isn't "Do they respond to ADHD medication?" our only test? No, absolutely not. It's a common internet myth that response to ADHD medication is indicative of ADHD. In reality, nearly anyone who takes ADHD medication acutely will experience increased focus and productivity (again, acutely) due to the acute (pre-tolerance build-up) effects of the drugs. Additionally, new users experience a short-lived euphoria that co…

> Of course, the term "hyperfocus" does not appear in ADHD medical literature or any ADHD studies.

Hyperfocus has been used generically to refer to one of the negative effects of a lack of self-control and self-regulation in the executive ability of ADHD individuals. This has been the case for at least the last 15 years. Both inattentiveness and excessive focus are thought to be caused by a lack of dopamine which the stimulant drugs counteract.

> The single best approach to dealing with this is to pursue constant discipline and self-monitoring, in order to train yourself back to a healthier mental process.

There is no single best approach. Different approaches will work for different people. I can only speak for myself but no amount of pursuing discipline and self-monitoring on its own worked for me. Rescuetime, getting things done, pomodoros, daily self evaluation... didn't make an iota of difference before I went to my Dr and got a diagnosis. The combination of Vyvanse and these techniques has made a difference, though I've eliminated the pomodoros as it just flat out doesn't work for me.

> So my advice would be to make efforts to structure your life in ways to minimize distractions and hold yourself accountable for your results.

Easier said than done. Structure is incredibly important but, at least for me, anything can be a distraction. The soft blue glow of the led on my monitors power button is a distraction. The difference in textures of the keys on the keyboard is a distraction, getting suddenly lost in thought or mentally stepping through what I need to do instead of doing it is a problem.

Figuring out what works best for you as an individual is important. I actually work much better with noise in the background so long as it's fairly consistent. Electronic or classical music is pretty good for this for me but at times can be too repetitive and then that becomes a distraction. Music with lyrics is generally better for me so long as the volume isn't too high and I'm already familiar with the songs. This also usually ties directly into the constant motion of my legs. I've been a leg bouncer for my entire life, especially when I need to do something intense like test taking in school or working on a complex algorithm at work.

The addition of medication to my daily life has allowed me to cut out some of the inputs I was giving too much attention to. When I'm locked in on something and someone interrupts me I actually hear them now rather than what would previously look like I was just flat out ignoring them. That ability to not switch tasks when I want to, and switch tasks voluntarily when I need to was absolutely life changing for me. I don't take my medication all of the time, in part to cut down on the tolerance and in part because I'd prefer not to take it forever. Having been on it has helped me be more aware of what I'm doing and catch myself in certain bad habits I've formed; however, if I'm locked into something and my wife walks up and starts talking I won't notice and there doesn't seem to be any amount of structure or discipline that will change things like that. The positive is that we are both aware of what is going on, she knows how to break me out of it better, a light touch, and it no longer is a source of arguments.

> Realize that everyone is distracted in modern life, but that's not necessarily indicative of a disease. Stimulant medications are not to be taken lightly, and you're best avoiding them long-term if possible.

I agree that stimulant medicine isn't something to mess around with or view as a quick solution to get more done. I also don't think it's fair or even good to try to say that everyone is distracted or it's just part of modern life. ADHD is probably over diagnosed because people are looking for a quick fix and going to their Drs with a list of things to say in order to get drugs. Just like with painkillers. If someone is going to their Dr and honestly thinks they may have ADHD or are getting a child evaluated I would find a different Dr if their first recommendation is medication, or if the Dr comes to that conclusion very quickly. I also wouldn't necessarily try to scare people away from trying them if there's a legitimate problem. I wish I had been diagnosed as a child or that I had the sense to talk to my Dr sooner.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#75
post #58
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And these practices are in a way unfair against the rest of us workers! This raises interesting philosophical questions about work in general. If work is inherently valuable, isn't anything that enhances it a good thing (assume lack of side effects for simplicity)? Is it "unfair" if a doctor/scientist/programmer uses a product to be more productive? Very few of us are formally competitive athletes, and special rules…

The real issue is they don't improve your performance much at all. A recent study demonstrated people simply feel as if they are performing better, however its a false perception. Additionally the drugs won't give you that "buzzed motivated" feeling for long. You have to keep upping the dose and upping the dose, and people end up addicted and in a worse spot than when they started.

Have you ever taken a therapeutic extended-release dose of amphetamine? The idea of amphetamine only making you feel like you're performing better is hilarious to anyone that's ever taken it. Kind of like someone telling you that marijuana is actually inert. Yeah, whatever.

The drugs will give you an effect as long as you keep your tolerance down.

You don't take them every day. You need off days. Most people I know are prescribed 20mg Adderall XRs or 50mg Vyvanse caps and only up their dose if they want to save money by splitting pills.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i recently quit adderall after 10 years and experienced Zero withdrawal.

Everyone is different, of course, but after 10 years it would be reasonable to assume that your brain was well-adapted to many of the effects of the Adderall and that you were taking a reasonable therapeutic dosage with a proper, healthy dosing schedule. On the other hand, those who abuse Adderall for the initial euphoric and energetic properties with sporadic dosing schemes are likely to experience unpleasant withdr…

I can't imagine a withdrawal for amphetamine outside the come-down from a multi-day binge. The come-down lasts a day or two. Maybe a week of fogginess if you hit it fear-and-loathing hard.

If you're taking amphetamine at such a rate that you would call it a "withdrawal", then you might want to consider the possibility that you were abusing amphetamine.

It's common to double-dose on the weekend whether for a productivity spree or recreation (they're usually one in the same) even if you haven't taken a pill in months. You just have to pay a day or two penalty and you're good to go.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't "Do they respond to ADHD medication?" our only test? No, absolutely not. It's a common internet myth that response to ADHD medication is indicative of ADHD. In reality, nearly anyone who takes ADHD medication acutely will experience increased focus and productivity (again, acutely) due to the acute (pre-tolerance build-up) effects of the drugs. Additionally, new users experience a short-lived euphoria that co…

To be clear: I'm getting that from a psychiatrist and a psychologist that I've seen. Of course they would have an economic incentive to over-diagnose. Do you happen to know what one actually does in order to "pursue constant discipline and self-monitoring"? Mindfulness meditation is not really that effective, but I might have been doing it wrong. Running in the morning seems to have had some effect but I can't yet te…

> Of course they would have an economic incentive to over-diagnose.

Why would your Dr have an economic incentive to over-diagnose? I was diagnosed a year ago with ADHD and I have tried every self-discipline technique you can think of without success. The quantified self just becomes an effort in futility and depression when you see where you are wasting time, actively try to correct it and still fail. I saw my Dr every six weeks initially when trying out medications. I see my Dr. every three months now instead of six months so that I can have my prescription renewed as she can only issue three one month non-refillable prescriptions but that's a tiny amount of additional money my Dr. is getting. I suppose if the Dr. is diagnosing this on a large scale the volume adds up but it just doesn't seem worth it. Especially with the changes to schedule II drugs and their prescription/distribution in the U.S.

I've been medicated for the last year and it's been a life changing experience. My own day sounds similar to what you describe below as far as the distractions go. I cut down to two monitors instead of three as I was using the third for just email and other communication tools. I now hide those on a virtual desktop. I do occasionally miss the third when I have a code window on one, and an output/debugging window on the other when having all three full screen would be easier but that's about it. I only let communication apps send me notifications once an hour instead of in real time which helps. I also have scheduled blocks where the notifications are blocked on my phone and computer except for specific people which is a new feature of Android 5 that I really like (Priority notifications). The medication has helped me build a routine and stick with it, and I'm hoping that when I decide I'm ready to try going off of it full time I will be better able to continue that trend. I don't believe for a minute that I will be able to eliminate all of it completely but I hope that I will be better prepared to handle it.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#78
post #17
post #4

Something will replace coffee eventually. I refuse to believe that technology will never find a better productivity enhancer, with near-zero side effects like coffee. Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your w…

Why replace coffee? Coffee has evolved alongside the human organism and become a great fit. There are also many other drugs (both plant and pure chemical) that may offer interesting and useful effects, but I don't think that any will "replace" coffee.

Coffee already has vastly superior alternatives if all you want is productive tunnel-vision.

But, of course, there are a lot of other nice things about coffee like how it's engrained in our culture, socially acceptable, something to grab a cup of on a date, its aroma as you sit tired in an airport terminal, when all you want is a cheap narcotic buzz with minimal come-down, etc.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#79

Honestly though what percentage difference does this make in productivity and is that percentage really going to be the difference between a startup's success and failure? Being fired or not? Being happy or not? If the thing makes you happy then that's one thing. If you think getting 10% or 20% more work done is going to move you from mediocre to exceptional or is going to make you happy, I beg to differ.

There's more to it than just a general percentage-based productivity boost.

It's also about gaining the energy to drill down into things you otherwise couldn't be faffed to care about.

People always joke about popping amphetamine and organizing their sock drawer in incredible detail. Apply that to some product you're working on. In software, it's common to gain the energy to spend time coming up with the perfect abstraction. Or fleshing out those API docs in great detail. Or really just fully immersing yourself in a problem and your solution.

Often things you otherwise simply wouldn't ever do because your sober self isn't going to spend half a day obsessing over the UX of a form.

It's not just about getting more work done.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#80
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tolerance/withdrawal drawbacks for adderall are nearly non existent if you don't abuse it and take weekends off. Sure, after the well known honeymoon phase of a few weeks it's not the superman pill you might have expected would last forever, but otherwise responsible use will keep you more productive. People with little will power or addictive personalities (which a third party can't possibly always know) aren't…

i recently quit adderall after 10 years and experienced Zero withdrawal.

I try to take weekends off of my Vyvanse and do skip at least Sundays every week. If I go two or more weeks without a day off when I do finally take one I'm extremely lethargic. I just want to sleep for the entire day, and often will sleep an extra two-three hours in the morning completely unintentionally.
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