Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think it's unfair that some people can afford secretaries, accountants, editors, private schools, etc., those seem much less fair than ADHD medicine. Yes, but between two people who are otherwise equal (in status), the one using the drug has an unfair advantage. > One of my childhood heroes, the great mathematician Paul Erdos, was a famous amphetamine user, does that mean the wonderful contributions he made to ou…
>Yes, but between two people who are otherwise equal (in status), the one using the drug has an unfair advantage. Okay. Between two people who are otherwise equal (in drugs), the one with the more servants has an unfair advantage. >The least he could have done was disclose in his publications that his results were obtained while using these drugs Should the same go for caffeine?
Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs
21–30 of 84 posts
Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs
#22Interesting that there was no mention of Modafinil. I believe that one of the most "abused" drugs for "productivity" is currently Modafinil, far more powerful than Adderall and without all those side effects. Of course, long term side effects are unknown.
Adderall - I seem to focus on anything I needed to without resistance, similar to how I would focus on something I enjoy. The side effects on me were (to me) extreme emotional instability, which was too off putting to use regularly - could not play well with others.
Modafinil (and Adrafinil before that) - The concentration assistance is there for when I'm focused, but it doesn't seem to help me stay on topic - I'm still easily distracted. The upside is I can still play well with others, and if anything seem more energetic (I hit the gym every morning I use it). The reduced sleep effect is real, I went from an average of 6 hours a night to I'd like to see how I react to both together, but hesitant given my poor reaction to Adderall. When I was younger I remember preferring Ritalin over Adderall.
EDIT: Adding to the throwaway comment below, the long halflife of Modafinil is true, especially when trying to sleep. For me, after months of 3-4 days on a week, there seemed to be no long term issues with this, where days I had taken Modafinil I only slept 3-4 hours.
I definitely had issues with alcohol and Modafinil, where at my weight (220lbs) I could normally drink 3-4 pints to reach 'buzzed' status, this seemed to happen at 1-2 pints. This trend stayed consistent - and proper 'drunk' came much quicker. This had the effect of limiting my drinking, to the point where I would switch to light beers and stop drinking after 1-2. This has been positive to me, but a bit concerning as I hadn't read of that effect before.
Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs
#23>>> Investors in her health-technology start-up Running a health start-up and popping Aderalls like there is no tomorrow does not seem a good fit.
Hopefully it's a health startup promoting the legalization of stimulants and enhancers :-)
Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs
#24Something will replace coffee eventually. I refuse to believe that technology will never find a better productivity enhancer, with near-zero side effects like coffee. Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your w…
The tolerance/withdrawal drawbacks for adderall are nearly non existent if you don't abuse it and take weekends off. Sure, after the well known honeymoon phase of a few weeks it's not the superman pill you might have expected would last forever, but otherwise responsible use will keep you more productive. People with little will power or addictive personalities (which a third party can't possibly always know) aren't…
Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs
#25And these practices are in a way unfair against the rest of us workers! > Most users who were interviewed said they got pills by feigning symptoms of A.D.H.D., a disorder marked by severe impulsivity and inattention, to physicians who casually write prescriptions without proper evaluations. And thus these practices disturb statistics about the true prevalence of ADHD.
>And these practices are in a way unfair against the rest of us workers! This raises interesting philosophical questions about work in general. If work is inherently valuable, isn't anything that enhances it a good thing (assume lack of side effects for simplicity)? Is it "unfair" if a doctor/scientist/programmer uses a product to be more productive? Very few of us are formally competitive athletes, and special rules…
Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs
#26Adderall aggravated the Renaud's syndrome that I have had for 5 years, to the point where the blood flow stopped and the fingers began to suffer from continuos lack of blood . See http://imgur.com/Djy6g2A This has been a daily challenge for the last couple of months, and it has greatly impacted my ability to work. I have a hard time using my hands to do anything, even typing. I am now off Adderall (6 months), withdrawal was not too bad for me.
I miss the Adderall, since it made me feel like my brain worked again. I felt like my old self, much sharper mentally - no focus change, still ADD as ever, but felt restored in the brain. I felt 25 again (45 now) and was able to work better, in the sense that 25 year old me was more energetic than 45 year old me. I tried Strattera for a few days, but found that has nasty side effects and also aggravated my hands.
Modafinil I don't notice any other effect, other than I don't feel as tired all the time. I don't feel smarter, or better, only not exhausted. For me, there is no stimulant feeling with Modafinil, or ability/skills change, just an change in the tired all the time feeling.
So, if you are going to use these drugs, pay attention to the side effects. I would recommend avoiding them unless you need them.
Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs
#27Interesting that there was no mention of Modafinil. I believe that one of the most "abused" drugs for "productivity" is currently Modafinil, far more powerful than Adderall and without all those side effects. Of course, long term side effects are unknown.
Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs
#28Interesting that there was no mention of Modafinil. I believe that one of the most "abused" drugs for "productivity" is currently Modafinil, far more powerful than Adderall and without all those side effects. Of course, long term side effects are unknown.
Modafinil is easier to acquire than Adderall, but it certainly isn't "far more powerful" than Adderall. Just the opposite, in fact, which is also why Adderall is a more tightly controlled substance than Modafinil.
Modafinil is a poorly-understood medication, but we do know that it has a moderate affinity for the dopamine reuptake transporter, which is a mode of action that overlaps slightly with other stimulants such as Methylphenidate. The remaining, additional modes of Modafinil's action are still a matter of active research.
Adderall, meanwhile, not only inhibits dopamine reuptake like Methylphenidate and Modafinil, but also enters the presynaptic terminals to exert effects within the cell. Through a series of actions, it forces more dopamine into synapses than would normally be released. This essentially makes it more powerful, and thus more prone to abuse, than Modafinil.
Those same intra-neuron actions also make Adderall potentially more neurotoxic than Modafinil. By upsetting the natural dopamine balance within a cell, Adderall can theoretically overwhelm certain systems that keep the cells working properly. Dopamine metabolism can unfortunately produce toxic metabolites, which are difficult for cells to cope with when produced in excess. Adderall can indirectly produce enough of these toxic metabolites to cause cell death. There is much debate over the exact dosage level at which this damage happens, but there is already one controversial study showing damage in non-human primates at typical therapeutic doses.
Modafinil is not the safest medication either, given the number of potential sensitivity reactions that some people have. Taking Modafinil without a doctors supervision, as many here seem to do, is thus not a good idea. Fortunately Modafinil seems to be more self-limiting due to the unpleasant side effects many experience at higher doses, such as decreased verbal fluency.
Long-term, the largest problem with Modafinil might just be its long half-life. Although the marketing material would lead you to believe it doesn't affect sleep, it's virtually impossible for a wake-promoting agent with an incredible 15-hour half-life would not negatively impact sleep. The 15-hour half-life means that by the time you're ready for bed, your body has only eliminated roughly half of your Modafinil does from the morning. Long-term sleep impairment is not conducive to long-term health.
Beyond all of this, there is a conversation about how the "productivity" aspect of these stimulants is largely limited to acute dosing, and is heavily prone to tolerance and withdrawal effects, but I've gone on long enough already.
Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs
#29Something will replace coffee eventually. I refuse to believe that technology will never find a better productivity enhancer, with near-zero side effects like coffee. Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your w…
The tolerance/withdrawal drawbacks for adderall are nearly non existent if you don't abuse it and take weekends off. Sure, after the well known honeymoon phase of a few weeks it's not the superman pill you might have expected would last forever, but otherwise responsible use will keep you more productive. People with little will power or addictive personalities (which a third party can't possibly always know) aren't…
Generally speaking, conversations around using Adderall for productivity center more around the hyperactivity and unnatural engagement brought on by too-high dosing or acute use. Adderall is meant for long-term therapeutic use at reasonable doses, where the hyperactivity and super-focus aspects give way to tolerance and leave the user with just enough of a correction to offset their ADHD.
Abusers and non-ADHD users, on the other hand, tend to chase the initial euphoria and the hyperactivity that comes with sporadic, acute dosing and higher-than-normal dosages. Tolerance inevitably catches up to this manner of usage, and the downregulation of prolonged elevated dopamine and norepinephrine levels combined with compounded sleep debt inevitably catches up with them.
Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs
#30Interesting that there was no mention of Modafinil. I believe that one of the most "abused" drugs for "productivity" is currently Modafinil, far more powerful than Adderall and without all those side effects. Of course, long term side effects are unknown.
I've used Adrafinil where legal, which is converted by the body into that, and Adderall under prescription. I don't consider them equivalent at all. You can skip sleep on Adrafinil/Modafinil for many days, which matches the usual military uses or how it is prescribed for people who can't stay awake - it doesn't help pay attention to boring things like Adderall and the like do, though.