Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs • Hacker News Board

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#11

Post by berntb » Sun, Apr 19, 2015, 1:07 PM UTC

solve wrote: post #4

Something will replace coffee eventually. I refuse to believe that technology will never find a better productivity enhancer, with near-zero side effects like coffee. Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your w…

Check the wikipedia page about coffee health effects. The side effects seems to not be close to zero, but positive.

(I hope the same will soon be said about my other misused "drug", the Dark Souls series of games. :-) I'll try the ADHD stuff when it becomes legal.)

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#12

Post by amelius » Sun, Apr 19, 2015, 1:14 PM UTC

xamuel wrote: post #10

amelius wrote: post #3

And these practices are in a way unfair against the rest of us workers! > Most users who were interviewed said they got pills by feigning symptoms of A.D.H.D., a disorder marked by severe impulsivity and inattention, to physicians who casually write prescriptions without proper evaluations. And thus these practices disturb statistics about the true prevalence of ADHD.

>And these practices are in a way unfair against the rest of us workers! This raises interesting philosophical questions about work in general. If work is inherently valuable, isn't anything that enhances it a good thing (assume lack of side effects for simplicity)? Is it "unfair" if a doctor/scientist/programmer uses a product to be more productive? Very few of us are formally competitive athletes, and special rules…

> I think it's unfair that some people can afford secretaries, accountants, editors, private schools, etc., those seem much less fair than ADHD medicine.

Yes, but between two people who are otherwise equal (in status), the one using the drug has an unfair advantage.

> One of my childhood heroes, the great mathematician Paul Erdos, was a famous amphetamine user, does that mean the wonderful contributions he made to our understanding of the universe are "unfair"?

To his peers his actions may have been certainly unfair. The least he could have done was disclose in his publications that his results were obtained while using these drugs.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#13

Post by ugexe » Sun, Apr 19, 2015, 1:17 PM UTC

solve wrote: post #4

Something will replace coffee eventually. I refuse to believe that technology will never find a better productivity enhancer, with near-zero side effects like coffee. Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your w…

The tolerance/withdrawal drawbacks for adderall are nearly non existent if you don't abuse it and take weekends off. Sure, after the well known honeymoon phase of a few weeks it's not the superman pill you might have expected would last forever, but otherwise responsible use will keep you more productive. People with little will power or addictive personalities (which a third party can't possibly always know) aren't usually equipped to deal with such moderation, so instead we let the "gotta work 7 days a week!" grinders stigmatize an otherwise safe and useful medicine/tool.

When used responsibly I can assure you it's more effective and has less side effects than caffeine IF you tolerate it well (not everyone can, just like not everyone can tolerate caffeine)

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#14

Post by xamuel » Sun, Apr 19, 2015, 1:19 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #12

xamuel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And these practices are in a way unfair against the rest of us workers! This raises interesting philosophical questions about work in general. If work is inherently valuable, isn't anything that enhances it a good thing (assume lack of side effects for simplicity)? Is it "unfair" if a doctor/scientist/programmer uses a product to be more productive? Very few of us are formally competitive athletes, and special rules…

> I think it's unfair that some people can afford secretaries, accountants, editors, private schools, etc., those seem much less fair than ADHD medicine. Yes, but between two people who are otherwise equal (in status), the one using the drug has an unfair advantage. > One of my childhood heroes, the great mathematician Paul Erdos, was a famous amphetamine user, does that mean the wonderful contributions he made to ou…

>Yes, but between two people who are otherwise equal (in status), the one using the drug has an unfair advantage.

Okay. Between two people who are otherwise equal (in drugs), the one with the more servants has an unfair advantage.

>The least he could have done was disclose in his publications that his results were obtained while using these drugs

Should the same go for caffeine?

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#15

Post by Synaesthesia » Sun, Apr 19, 2015, 1:22 PM UTC

solve wrote: post #4

Something will replace coffee eventually. I refuse to believe that technology will never find a better productivity enhancer, with near-zero side effects like coffee. Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your w…

The military ran tests comparing the efficacy of caffeine and amphetamine. Amphetamine was not shown to improve performance over caffeine, although it gave the perception that performance was improved.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#16

Post by snarfy » Sun, Apr 19, 2015, 1:41 PM UTC

zxcvcxz wrote: post #7

Off topic, but I was diagnosed with ADHD about 10 years ago, been taking methylphenidate ER ever since. Throughout the years I have had over ten different doctors at the same location and I informed each doctor that I was a marijuana user. Recently my latest doctor decided to drug test me, before asking any questions about my usage or even looking at my file he stated he would no longer prescribe me my medicine becau…

> I'm aware that the doctors opinion is what goes and he has all the power, but I feel I've been wronged.

He actually has little power. You can go to a different doctor. There are many people that abuse this fact, e.g. keep switching doctors until they find one that prescribes them painkillers, but in your case it sounds perfectly valid. You have ten other opinions that think it's perfectly fine to combine your meds.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#17

Post by jMyles » Sun, Apr 19, 2015, 1:41 PM UTC

solve wrote: post #4

Something will replace coffee eventually. I refuse to believe that technology will never find a better productivity enhancer, with near-zero side effects like coffee. Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your w…

Why replace coffee? Coffee has evolved alongside the human organism and become a great fit.

There are also many other drugs (both plant and pure chemical) that may offer interesting and useful effects, but I don't think that any will "replace" coffee.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#18

Post by ugexe » Sun, Apr 19, 2015, 1:47 PM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #15

solve wrote: post #4

Something will replace coffee eventually. I refuse to believe that technology will never find a better productivity enhancer, with near-zero side effects like coffee. Adderall is not the answer as these journalists like to claim though. It's useless for basically anything other than very rare usage and has difficult to manage loss of productivity during withdraw. It has an incredibly fast tolerance buildup. If your w…

The military ran tests comparing the efficacy of caffeine and amphetamine. Amphetamine was not shown to improve performance over caffeine, although it gave the perception that performance was improved.

I hope you're not referring to the 46 person study that states: *Our participants were not representative of the general population

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#19

Post by userbinator » Sun, Apr 19, 2015, 2:02 PM UTC

zxcvcxz wrote: post #7

Off topic, but I was diagnosed with ADHD about 10 years ago, been taking methylphenidate ER ever since. Throughout the years I have had over ten different doctors at the same location and I informed each doctor that I was a marijuana user. Recently my latest doctor decided to drug test me, before asking any questions about my usage or even looking at my file he stated he would no longer prescribe me my medicine becau…

and I feel that his opinion is based more on politics than rigorous medical study.

He might also be worrying about the chance that if something bad did happen, he could be in a lot of trouble. In general, doctors can be quite risk-averse.

Re: Workers Seeking Productivity in a Pill Are Abusing A.D.H.D. Drugs

#20

Post by falcolas » Sun, Apr 19, 2015, 2:07 PM UTC

xamuel wrote: post #10

amelius wrote: post #3

And these practices are in a way unfair against the rest of us workers! > Most users who were interviewed said they got pills by feigning symptoms of A.D.H.D., a disorder marked by severe impulsivity and inattention, to physicians who casually write prescriptions without proper evaluations. And thus these practices disturb statistics about the true prevalence of ADHD.

>And these practices are in a way unfair against the rest of us workers! This raises interesting philosophical questions about work in general. If work is inherently valuable, isn't anything that enhances it a good thing (assume lack of side effects for simplicity)? Is it "unfair" if a doctor/scientist/programmer uses a product to be more productive? Very few of us are formally competitive athletes, and special rules…

Fair is hard to tease out in situations like this, but not everyone is able to use Adderall and get the same effects; those with ADHD just come up to normal, and there are some folks who will have very negative reactions.

What method would you propose to ensure those who did not get the net positive effects of a wonder drug were not negatively affected in the work force?