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Chord progressions of 25,000 songs

amitkohli.com

81–90 of 113 posts

Re: Chord progressions of 25,000 songs

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wind instruments are a hodgepodge of compromises. It depends on the wind instrument and the setting. For woodwinds, yes, this is typically true; it's very difficult to adjust the tuning of a particular note on-the-fly. For brass, however, this becomes less and less true; more sophisticated brass instruments will have easily-accessible "tuning slides" (in addition to the main one) meant to adjust the tuning of a par…

All good points. I played flute at one time, and there were notes that had to be shoved around a bit, unless hidden in a fast passage, such as C sharp. And I'm told that french horn players use the hand in the bell as a tuning slide.

> And I'm told that french horn players use the hand in the bell as a tuning slide.

You can do this, since how far your hand is in the bell can determine pitch up to even a whole semitone or more (I forgot which way, though, but I think it goes flat as you shove your hand in further; it's been a few years since I've played French horn on any semblance of a routine basis, and I don't have one on hand (those things are damn expensive...)). However, this will also affect tone; the further you shove your hand in, the more muffled it'll sound.

French horn players usually opt for double-horns (F/B-flat) in order to avoid needing to use their bell-hands for tuning; since both "sides" (the F side and the B-flat side) of each rotor can be tuned independently of one another, it means that a skilled French horn player who's learned how to transpose F-keyed notes to B-flat-keyed fingerings (which is actually pretty easy if you already know how to play a bass-clef'd valved brass instrument like a baritone or euphonium or tuba, since F-key and bass-clef C-key have the same note positions on the staff, so you just need to be aware of various differences in accidentals and you can transpose very easily) can pick either an F-side fingering or a B-flat-side fingering for a given note depending on which one is closer to the desired pitch.

Re: Chord progressions of 25,000 songs

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wind instruments are a hodgepodge of compromises. It depends on the wind instrument and the setting. For woodwinds, yes, this is typically true; it's very difficult to adjust the tuning of a particular note on-the-fly. For brass, however, this becomes less and less true; more sophisticated brass instruments will have easily-accessible "tuning slides" (in addition to the main one) meant to adjust the tuning of a par…

It was all too easy for me to adjust the tuning of any particular note on my oboe, unfortunately usually in the wrong direction. The violin players in front of me, who had much better pitch recognition than me, would shoot me dirty looks and I'd get my pencil out to mark up the sheet music with arrows pointing up or down.

Ah yes, forgot about oboe (and bassoon and English horn and double-reeds in general), which tend to be much more sensitive about embouchure when it comes to pitch if I remember right.

Re: Chord progressions of 25,000 songs

#83
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the question is, what's natural about the Naturals, and whats accidental about the Accidentals? Because taken together they are just 12 equally spaced notes.

I don't see a good online reference, maybe I read this a guitar book somewhere, but essentially the tones for A, B, C, D, E, F, G notes were picked out by the ancient Greeks (who referred to them as Alpha, Beta, Gamma ... so on) In fact Pythagoras came up with a mathematical tuning system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoras#Musical_theories_and... The 7 natural notes are based on a 7-tone equal temperament (equal…

The 7 natural notes are based on a 7-tone equal temperament (equal tonal spacing), which gives you enough equal spacing between notes to make nice harmonies

But they are not equally spaced. The tonal gap between A and B is twice as big as the gap between B and C, for example (look at the frequencies on a logarithmic scale).

Re: Chord progressions of 25,000 songs

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the question is, what's natural about the Naturals, and whats accidental about the Accidentals? Because taken together they are just 12 equally spaced notes.

Good question. I don't know the exact answer, but yes I think there's nothing special that distinguish naturals and accidentals from a "listening" point of view. However, this distinction is handy for written music. For example, when you play a piece of music in a given key, let say G major, the notes are G A B C D E F#, there's only one accidental, so you can put this information in the key signature at the beginnin…

But you're just describing a notation, and the notation works OK because of the convention that in any given key you only use 7 of the available 12 tones. But why 7, and why those 7?

Re: Chord progressions of 25,000 songs

#85
post #53

For non-musicians, here's some terminology behind this: There are 7 natural notes in (western) music: A, B, C, D, E, F, G (the white keys on a piano keyboard) ... plus 5 accidental notes that half-way between: A#, C#, D#, F#, G# also known as Bb, Db, Eb, Gb, Ab ... the black keys on a piano keyboard. # means sharp (go up in pitch one-half step) b means flat (go down in pitch one-half step) 7 naturals + 5 accidentals…

For some reason this is the first explanation of Roman numerals used in chord progression that made sense to me. Thank you!

Re: Chord progressions of 25,000 songs

#86
post #53

For non-musicians, here's some terminology behind this: There are 7 natural notes in (western) music: A, B, C, D, E, F, G (the white keys on a piano keyboard) ... plus 5 accidental notes that half-way between: A#, C#, D#, F#, G# also known as Bb, Db, Eb, Gb, Ab ... the black keys on a piano keyboard. # means sharp (go up in pitch one-half step) b means flat (go down in pitch one-half step) 7 naturals + 5 accidentals…

But the question is, what's natural about the Naturals, and whats accidental about the Accidentals? Because taken together they are just 12 equally spaced notes.

Harmonics. They resonate well together because they have some common frequency. 13 equally spaced notes wouldn't match on multiples of 2, 3, 4 and 6.

Example: The major scale (C, D, E, F etc) are the notes 0/12, 2/12, 4, 5, 7, 9 and 11. You'd expect the 6th note to sound nice, wouldn't you? Wrong: The scale is logarithmic.

A nice C chord is made of 0th, 4th, 7th/12, which are 523Hz, 659Hz, 783Hz. Notice how the second frequency is 125% higher and the last 150% higher. So they have harmonics in common and it makes them sound well together.

Re: Chord progressions of 25,000 songs

#87
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the Maj3 interval between the 2nd and 3rd strings on the guitar is unrelated to this issue. It's just the fret spacing on the guitar that causes it to have equal temperament and therefore makes chords slightly "out of tune".

Incidentally, a just (non-tempered) guitar fingerboard might look something like this: http://jsnow.bootlegether.net/cbg/fingerboard_at_a.svg I swapped fingerboards on an old Harmony Archtone with one based on the above design. Admittedly, 20 notes per octave may have been a bit much; it's kind of awkward to play. The next one I do will be simpler. Sounds nice, though.

Just remove the frets, problem solved.

Re: Chord progressions of 25,000 songs

#88
post #12

If anyone has interest in harmonic theory and why I/IV/V progressions are so pervasive, I highly recommend "The Harmonic Experience" by W.A. Mathieu. He really gets into the harmonic series, and how intervals are really low prime ratios. I read this book after being a professional musician for 15 years and it was an ear opening experience. there are lots of great singing exercises for really hearing the overtone seri…

That book looks really interesting - thanks for the recommendation. What still twists my melon about harmony is the Pythagorean Comma. Harmony equating to integer ratios seems so right... But the fact that a perfect 5th on a piano isn't really a perfect 5th troubles me at some existential level.

I've always seen equal temperament similarly to digitizing or any other form quantization. It's "close enough". Any type of dissonance heard in what are supposed to be perfect intervals is like grain in film.

Re: Chord progressions of 25,000 songs

#89
post #6

Sounds like something that could be used to generate endless but still decent elevator music with some Markov chains.

I've actually considered using this approach to build dynamic video game music.

Have you seen the 'infinite jukebox'?

http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html

It stretches or compresses existing music by jumping back and forth to parts of the piece that sound similar, which could be handy for dynamically adapting the timing/duration of existing pieces to the players situation.

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