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The hidden FM radio in your pocket and why you can't use it

npr.org

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Re: The hidden FM radio in your pocket and why you can't use it

#51

Post by mrshoe »

While half-baked conspiracy theories are fun, a good journalist would've consulted a few more sources to get to the bottom of this story.

FM radio requires a large antenna. It will not work without one. The 5th generation iPod nano (2009) was the first iPod with an (enabled) FM radio. We used the headphone wire as the antenna. It worked well enough. While there was a tiny speaker in those iPods, headphones were the only practical way to listen to audio.

That's not the case with phones. People listen to the built-in speaker, and they listen over bluetooth and WiFi. It's becoming less and less common to plug headphones into these devices. That being the case, including an FM radio feature would just be a horrible experience for the majority of users: they'd hear nothing but static, all the time. I don't know about the other smartphone makers, but Apple will not ship something that will likely be a horrible experience for most users. Couple that with very low demand from users (as the article points out) and there's no FM radio on iPhones.

Re: The hidden FM radio in your pocket and why you can't use it

#52

Post by mcshicks »

CraigRood wrote: post #36
nostromo wrote: post #10

This is poor journalism, particularly coming from NPR. The NAB (including NPR) are lobbying to force all phones to include an FM radio. Since they can't say, "we want this to increase our ad revenue," they're using the tried and true, "it's a must for national security" approach. They've previously tried to get language added to Homeland Security bills that would force phone manufacturers to include radios. Besides,…

I'm not sure this is the reason at all. Talk of FM on iPhones goes back many years - even leading to rumours of iOS updates brining FM support, but they obviously never materialised. Nowadays I think the FM part is basically down to the chips themselves and the low-cost solution to have a generic chip that does all, instead of having a limited subset of functions based on each deal.

I used to work on combo bluetooth/fm/wifi chips that are used in cell phone applications. There is additional cost to make it work, both for bill of materials as well as recurring and non-recurring testing. So many customers preferred only to use the bluetooth/wifi portion of the chip. We even had a FM TX version in some chips.

Re: The hidden FM radio in your pocket and why you can't use it

#53

Post by r00fus »

bfg wrote: post #21

What's the downside of turning this on? From the article it just seems like it would mean more capabilities, more consumer choice. Is the only "downside" that it allows you to bypass cell networks when getting content?

Maybe because the quality sucks? I mean, if you had TV on your phone but could only get 3 channels and they all had static, who would the customer blame that it doesn't work?

Re: The hidden FM radio in your pocket and why you can't use it

#54

Post by Animats »

I have a Cat B15 phone, which runs Android, and it has an enabled FM radio. If I try to use it without headphones, I get a warning that without headphones as an antenna, reception will be poor. It sometimes works in good reception locations without an antenna, but it's a marginal FM radio. There's a "record FM radio" option.

Re: The hidden FM radio in your pocket and why you can't use it

#55

Post by nine_k »

wongarsu wrote: post #43
nine_k wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll pay less for data traffic; this directly affects your mobile bill. You'll listen to the radio ads instead of the streaming services' ads; mobile carriers may have special ad-revenue arrangements with such services.

That explains why Apple disables it, but why would Samsung and LG care? To my knowledge they neither sell data traffic nor streaming services?

Don't they have huge arrangements for their devices with mobile carriers worldwide?

Re: The hidden FM radio in your pocket and why you can't use it

#56

Post by cbhl »

wtallis wrote: post #44
kevinskii wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between including an FM radio and simply turning on a pre-existing one via a software update, which apparently is possible on at least some phone models. And regardless of NPR's motives, their "it's needed for emergencies" argument is a pretty good one.

And selling hardware that's been crippled in some way always makes people uncomfortable. Whether it's an FM tuner being turned off, tethering being blocked, CPU features turned off, or whatever, manufacturing a working product and then selling it in a less-working state is worrisome and shouldn't be automatically considered acceptable. It's a strong indicator of a possible market failure and a sure sign that the cons…

The hardware isn't crippled; you can root your phone and install an FM Radio app yourself.

Re: The hidden FM radio in your pocket and why you can't use it

#57

Post by dandelany »

Marcus10110 wrote: post #26

I would argue that analog FM radio has a pretty bad user experience, and I completely understand a manufacturer not including it because of that. The audio quality is usually poor, it's location and environment sensitive, and the system for distributing and the RDS text is slow to update, and often incomplete.

Pretty bad user experience was after Hurricane Sandy, when I was holed up in my office (evacuated from my home) with no electricity or Internet, but a fully charged phone that I couldn't use for anything but games, even though valuable information was being broadcast constantly on a frequency that my phone was perfectly capable of receiving.

Re: The hidden FM radio in your pocket and why you can't use it

#58

Post by clarkmoody »

kevinskii wrote: post #9

But Jot Carpenter, vice president of government affairs for CTIA-The Wireless Association, resists the move to turn on the FM chip..."What Americans really want is the ability to stream, download and customize music playlists to meet their personal preferences," Carpenter said... I wonder if the people whose job it is to make these sorts of patronizing arguments privately feel embarrassed when doing so.

Politicians, corporate types, etc. who start a sentence with "What Americans really want..." are usually indicating what they want Americans to want.

It's about the same as a politician talking about proposed legislation with the phrase common sense.

The goal here is to paint people who oppose your view as out of touch with the average American or acting nonsensically.

Re: The hidden FM radio in your pocket and why you can't use it

#59

Post by late2part »

grecy wrote: post #23
kevinskii wrote: post #9

But Jot Carpenter, vice president of government affairs for CTIA-The Wireless Association, resists the move to turn on the FM chip..."What Americans really want is the ability to stream, download and customize music playlists to meet their personal preferences," Carpenter said... I wonder if the people whose job it is to make these sorts of patronizing arguments privately feel embarrassed when doing so.

I work at a telco that constantly makes ridiculous patronizing arguments. The people making those statements are drinking so much kool-aid they honestly don't even know they're talking nonsense. They actually believe it to their core.

The funny part is when kool-aid drinking folks make dependent assertions. Then you have this whole series of partial or completely untrue assumptions. Sort of like "The Emperor's New Clothes."

Re: The hidden FM radio in your pocket and why you can't use it

#60

Post by aantthony »

"NPR, along with the NAB, has been part of a lobbying effort to require this free radio feature to be enabled."

I don't want an FM radio on my phone because the internet is a superior system 99% of the time. If Apple doesn't want to make an FM radio then they shouldn't have to. It should be the people creating technology who decide the features, not lobbyists using threats of force through government based on clearly biased political interests.

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