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The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytalk and Gametalk

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Re: The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytalk and Gametalk

#21

Post by vgr »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #6
zackattack wrote: post #4

I was deeply upset by this on an emotional level, mostly because for all of my life, I have not had an intuitive hold of this kind of communication. Consequently, I have been operating on an entirely separate plane, making it difficult to relate to and understand other people. I would truly appreciate advice from someone who understands my situation. I am not interested in sympathy.

I think a lot of engineering types are out in the cold on this one. what helped me was studying acting (the art of believably imitating social situations). http://greenlightwiki.com/improv/Status start reading Robin Hanson's blog Overcoming Bias, he's an economics professor who posts a lot about signaling.

I am an engineer, but I am inclined to agree with you. As an undergrad, I was the dramatics/theater secretary of my hostel (==dorm), and did enough directing/script writing to get a real sense of the medium (even though I quickly found out I had little talent on stage or backstage).

Theater/acting related metaphors and ideas are pretty central to the way I am developing the series... the next piece is shaping up to be even more theater-informed.

Overcoming Bias is a good reco -- I used to read it regularly, but (pot-kettle complaint here...:)) I couldn't keep up with the length of some of the stuff, especially by Yudkowsky. Hansen is thankfully briefer.

Venkat

Re: The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytalk and Gametalk

#22

Post by btilly »

vgr wrote: post #20

On both this piece and the earlier one, I was kinda surprised that startup/hacker types would be so interested. I guess my mental image of the audience here is younger, fresh-out-of-college entrepreneurial types. Perhaps I am wrong, and there is a good proportion of people with mature org. experience as well? I am also surprised by the number of people who seem to think small/startup companies are immune to these dyn…

Well I'm 40 and I've seen a number of people drop comments that make it clear that they've been around long enough to not be kids.

That said I'm sure there are a lot of bright kids around as well.

Re: The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytalk and Gametalk

#23

Post by madair »

zackattack wrote: post #4

I was deeply upset by this on an emotional level, mostly because for all of my life, I have not had an intuitive hold of this kind of communication. Consequently, I have been operating on an entirely separate plane, making it difficult to relate to and understand other people. I would truly appreciate advice from someone who understands my situation. I am not interested in sympathy.

Ahahaha. Are you going for Sociopathic Posturetalk, or sarcastic Gametalk, also by a sociopath?

In either or any case, nice!

Edit: Oh, you're serious. Oops. Well I enjoyed reading it as sarcastic gametalk ;-)

Re: The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytalk and Gametalk

#24

Post by netcan »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #16
zackattack wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is tremendously helpful because I don't have a natural intuitive grasp of status. Thank you. One thing that confuses me is when it's strategic to act high status, and when it's strategic to act low status. For example, sometimes, when you need something from someone - do you want to raise their status, and make them like you? Or do you want to convey high status, so they will want to associate with you?…

How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. the original. so lucid I doubt it will ever be dethroned as the best. hmm, can't find an online version right now even though I know multiple sites have a plain text version. anyone have a link? a direct answer: I personally think it's better to act high status the vast majority of the time, only acting lower status when it is absolutely required. when I start…

I recommend listening instead of reading it for those who sometimes find self betterment books hard to stomach.

One of the reasons this book is easier to digest then a lot of its modern equivalents is that because it is old. It's easier to seperate fad from truth. It evokes less troublesome emotional responses for the same reason that the Trojan War evokes less troublesome emotional responses then the war in Afghanistan. Listening seems to highlight that.

http://www.audible.com/adbl/site/entry/offers/partnerPromoti...

Re: The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytalk and Gametalk

#26

Post by angelbob »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #6
zackattack wrote: post #4

I was deeply upset by this on an emotional level, mostly because for all of my life, I have not had an intuitive hold of this kind of communication. Consequently, I have been operating on an entirely separate plane, making it difficult to relate to and understand other people. I would truly appreciate advice from someone who understands my situation. I am not interested in sympathy.

I think a lot of engineering types are out in the cold on this one. what helped me was studying acting (the art of believably imitating social situations). http://greenlightwiki.com/improv/Status start reading Robin Hanson's blog Overcoming Bias, he's an economics professor who posts a lot about signaling.

The article references the book "Impro". I agree -- it has a really fabulous chapter on status, and how to use it in interaction. While the book is focused on improvisational theater, the exercises they do will teach you a lot about how people use these same techniques in day-to-day life.

Re: The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytalk and Gametalk

#27

Post by dhs »

pchristensen wrote: post #18
zackattack wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, doesn't How to Win Friends and Influence People offer advice like sincere and lavish praise? That's low-status, unless coming from the position of an authority position (high-status). Maybe I'll do some experiments. Something else I am interested in is how social/contextual status subconsciously sabotages people in the context of sport or business.

(before I get started, I can't praise HTWFAIP enough - http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/verifying-theories... ) It's not low status unless you overdo it. Everyone enjoys validation for what they do, and while some people get more praise than they want for some things they do ("Hey, Michael Jordan, great game!"), there are other parts of them that are starving. People are not monolithic, they're made of many…

Found the PDF. Thanks for giving that clue :-)

Re: The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytalk and Gametalk

#28

Post by alxp »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #3
alxp wrote: post #2

I wonder if there's a vocabulary in some industry, like maybe the gambling world, that can describe the players in this game without loaded words like 'sociopath' and 'loser'. I sort of liken the clueless to a scam artist's potential victims, someone who thinks he can play and win against a scammer but clearly can't, vs. a 'loser' who knows not to bother.

but it's only about "winning and losing" from the sociopaths perspective. as mentioned in the first installment, lots of "losers" lead very fulfilling, non-work centric lives.

That's what I mean, the 'loser' is the one who chooses to not play the game when he knows the house (sociopaths) sets the rules to always come out on top.

Re: The Gervais Principle II: Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytalk and Gametalk

#29

Post by visitor4rmindia »

zackattack wrote: post #4

I was deeply upset by this on an emotional level, mostly because for all of my life, I have not had an intuitive hold of this kind of communication. Consequently, I have been operating on an entirely separate plane, making it difficult to relate to and understand other people. I would truly appreciate advice from someone who understands my situation. I am not interested in sympathy.

Understanding this level of communication becomes simpler if you understand the dynamics at play in office relationships.

Listen to gossip, try to understand the way your boss feels about his boss. About his peers. About his portfolio. And look for leverage.

I find it exhausting and truly boring so I don't do it. But maybe that's because my personality doesn't enjoy power plays and I want a happy life over a rich/powerful one.

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