Participating a war means participating murder, torture and rape. If that's what it takes to be a man, I'll pass.
Murder yes that's sort of the point. Torture and rape are not required.
Why Young Men Go to War
91–100 of 223 posts
Re: Why Young Men Go to War
#92I forgot who said it, but it went like this: "If people recognise the banality of war, there will be no more wars." Of course its not that simple, but we, I suppose especially us techie boys (us because I am one), think that an M1 Abrams tank, a F-15 airplane or a Sig Sauer rifle are, well, cool. We also think uniforms look good. And we dream of being heroes, especially when we are young. It is, of course, nonsense.…
No we need weapons to defend others. The USA and UK are in part two of the richest nations in the world because they are physically isolated from threats, we grew, and continue to grow, rich of trade with the rest of the world.
The West has the capacity to be heroic and for a brief period at the turn of the millennium was actually doing that. Kosovo and Sierra Leone were examples of successful military intervention followed up by nation building. Before that the first Gulf War was again a successful intervention.
The cause of peace allows Rwanda, Bosnia and a hundred other regional conflicts and genocide to claims the lives of millions and blight regions. We should not let Afghanistan and Iraq - and really the root problem is Iraq detract from the potential to affect positive change in the world.
Finally it's worth saying that military capability gives humanitarian capability. The recent Philippines disaster saw HMS Illustrious deliver all the spare rice in Singapore in a short space of time along with a number of helicopters as well as fit, motivated, organised and well led teams to assist in disaster relief.
Re: Why Young Men Go to War
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
You sound like a good person to me, but I do think you're wrong. It would be very hard for you to not see things the way you've described them, without going crazy at least. It may be best to reject others' opinions, considering what you've done. Just to maintain that sanity. We all lie to ourselves for many things in our lives to maintain sanity. I'm not saying this in any way to be a slight towards you. I personall…
I'm curious. You seem to be saying that one cannot avoid every fight (the Chinese stuff in your post) and that one can avoid every fight ("There are -always- alternatives even if the argument coming from the profiting parties don't frame it in such a way that this is clear.") This seems to be a bit contradictory. I'm also curious how it meshes with your personal experience.
I tried to clear that up with this, "Short of having foreign troops as we have them overseas, in your hometown."
I was trying to convey that there is always an alternative unless it's out of self-defense.
If the Chinese were in the US today, I'm not sure we'd have much choice. I'm also not sure the people of the mideast have much choice either. Does anyone seriously expect them to embrace our "help"? It's asinine and insulting to their (and our) intelligence. It's unfathomable to me that anyone over there wouldn't be taking up arms against 'us'. It should be radicalizing the moderates. What a gift that was for the extremists. The money, lives and hatred created was senseless. Our troops and their population are deeply invested in a conflict that didn't need to happen. Well, except on their side. They had to fight us once we setup shop in their country. These wars are a business venture transferring wealth from the citizenry to those colluding with the gov't, not a noble cause.
It meshes with my personal experiences quite well. Unless someone takes a swing at me, I don't fight. I get by well with this principle. I'm never in jail and never standing in front of a judge, and no one gets hurt unnecessarily. I think the same principle would do our nation-state a lot of good.
You can't say it's a response to 9/11 (a "swing at us"). Because if this were about stopping Islamic-sourced terrorism, we would've invaded Saudi Arabia first, foremost and long ago. It was a response to nothing, it was an excuse.
Re: Why Young Men Go to War
#94I went in the army because at the time, I had big dreams and no clear path to them. I thought joining the army and doing a hard training would teach me something about achieving goals. I went to war because I was in the army and wondered what was the point of being in the army if you don't go to war. After doing my training, deploying in Afghanistan was the logical follow up. Why train so hard just to stay home. Afte…
The army is the reason young men go to war. That's what I infer from your comment at least. What other institution is so organized, so marketed, so respected, as the army? What other institution will take you in and dedicate the same level of attention and money in guiding you? What other institution does all the above with as low of a barrier to entry? To some extent, the army provides the same benefit as a cult. Th…
There are actually interesting parallels to Silicon Valley and startups for techies. It is "the place to be", "the place to prove yourself". The cosy safety net of corporate life leaves you with the naggging feeling that you're not quite as good as someone "hacking" at the startup.
The notion isn't new, Shakespeare as usual sums it up:
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.
Re: Why Young Men Go to War
#95[deleted]
Re: Why Young Men Go to War
#96I forgot who said it, but it went like this: "If people recognise the banality of war, there will be no more wars." Of course its not that simple, but we, I suppose especially us techie boys (us because I am one), think that an M1 Abrams tank, a F-15 airplane or a Sig Sauer rifle are, well, cool. We also think uniforms look good. And we dream of being heroes, especially when we are young. It is, of course, nonsense.…
This reminded me of the article "The Jihad Cult: Why Young Germans Are Answering Call to Holy War" [1] - after reading it, I got the impression that at least some young men became jihadists because they are basically narcissistic losers whose attempts to be cool via normal and non-destructive means (like becaming famous rapper or kickboxer) failed so they convinced themselves that joining ISIS is the cool thing - they perceive it like courageously fighting with their 'brothers' to enforce God's will... or something like that, they perceive this concept as cool and some of them desperately want back home when they get to Syria and see the grim reality of real ISIS. The whole article is worth reading.
[1] http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/why-young-germany-...
Re: Why Young Men Go to War
#97I forgot who said it, but it went like this: "If people recognise the banality of war, there will be no more wars." Of course its not that simple, but we, I suppose especially us techie boys (us because I am one), think that an M1 Abrams tank, a F-15 airplane or a Sig Sauer rifle are, well, cool. We also think uniforms look good. And we dream of being heroes, especially when we are young. It is, of course, nonsense.…
> us techie boys (us because I am one), think that an M1 Abrams tank, a F-15 airplane or a Sig Sauer rifle are, well, cool.
Speak for yourself only.
As a child Ive seen artillery in action, MiGs XX dropping bombs close to basement "us techies" were hiding it, those things are not fucking cool.
It would be so fun one day for you to experience an F15 dropping its load on your village or an M1 Abrams tank, firing its guns towards your house, then lets see if you think those are cool.
In general Americans are far far far from any war, and far far back in history to have any meaningful experience of it. Hollywood takes it lightly, it is entertaiment, for Americans, but "not so much" for lets say Europe.
Re: Why Young Men Go to War
#98I forgot who said it, but it went like this: "If people recognise the banality of war, there will be no more wars." Of course its not that simple, but we, I suppose especially us techie boys (us because I am one), think that an M1 Abrams tank, a F-15 airplane or a Sig Sauer rifle are, well, cool. We also think uniforms look good. And we dream of being heroes, especially when we are young. It is, of course, nonsense.…
> us techie boys (us because I am one), think that an M1 Abrams tank, a F-15 airplane or a Sig Sauer rifle are, well, cool. Speak for yourself only. As a child Ive seen artillery in action, MiGs XX dropping bombs close to basement "us techies" were hiding it, those things are not fucking cool. It would be so fun one day for you to experience an F15 dropping its load on your village or an M1 Abrams tank, firing its gu…
I get what you're saying, but your tone here is pretty hostile here and you don't seem to acknowledge that the point you're making is in perfect agreement with the post you're responding to. You quoted him just before he said, "[This] is, of course, nonsense."
Re: Why Young Men Go to War
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
The army is the reason young men go to war. That's what I infer from your comment at least. What other institution is so organized, so marketed, so respected, as the army? What other institution will take you in and dedicate the same level of attention and money in guiding you? What other institution does all the above with as low of a barrier to entry? To some extent, the army provides the same benefit as a cult. Th…
There are actually interesting parallels to Silicon Valley and startups for techies. It is "the place to be", "the place to prove yourself". The cosy safety net of corporate life leaves you with the naggging feeling that you're not quite as good as someone "hacking" at the startup. The notion isn't new, Shakespeare as usual sums it up: And gentlemen in England now-a-bed Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not h…
Not being a native speaker, I can't find a handle on this quote. Can anyone please explain in simpler words what Shakespeare meant?
Re: Why Young Men Go to War
#100Well, 66% of the men in WW2 and 38% of those deployed to Vietnam went to war because the government forced them into the military under threat of imprisonment.
Well, you can't put millions behind bars.