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Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained

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Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained

#241

Post by Dylan16807 »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #197
shub wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANA neuroscientist but it seems reasonable that the brain will fix up small errors. It has to anyway, because it has its own input latency. Besides, the article is referring to discrepancies between multiple audio tracks, which don't depend on vision at all. For a real-world example, listen to 2 TVs several meters apart and tuned to the same channel. At least with OTA or cable you can expect them to be playing ~simu…

>Besides, the article is referring to discrepancies between multiple audio tracks, which don't depend on vision at all. They do depend upon vision or touch if it is an interactive app. >For a real-world example, listen to 2 TVs several meters apart and tuned to the same channel. At least with OTA or cable you can expect them to be playing ~simultaneously but the skew between the received signals is easily perceptible…

>They do depend upon vision or touch if it is an interactive app.

Discrepancies between tracks are totally unrelated to the visuals. It's much easier to tell if two sounds are synced than a sound and a visual.

> Signal delay in a cable

I don't know what comment you read but it's not the one you replied to. Same model, synchronized visuals, easy to hear audio desync when you're closer to one.

Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained

#242

Post by Frondo »

general_failure wrote: post #238
gone35 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A little manly-man programming from the wrist and we move on to real problems." See... it's the little things like this. I am pretty sure that was not your intention, but please do know that turns of phrases like that hurt a little, and exclude a little. To see what I mean, s/man/jew/ or s/man/white/ or some other category and see how it reads.

This comment is terrifying. You cannot say anything without being called out with this sort of terrible attitude.

Of course you can. Language is intensely rich, there's such a tiny subset of stuff that we're now starting to recognize rubs people the wrong way/excludes people/makes us sound like cavemen.

I don't at all get what benefit there is to being able to say "manly-man programming," either from a communication or a social standpoint.

I don't get what's lost when we replace "manly-man programming" with anything less stupid and awful.

Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained

#243

Post by Frondo »

rcr wrote: post #233
gone35 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A little manly-man programming from the wrist and we move on to real problems." See... it's the little things like this. I am pretty sure that was not your intention, but please do know that turns of phrases like that hurt a little, and exclude a little. To see what I mean, s/man/jew/ or s/man/white/ or some other category and see how it reads.

You can't really be serious.

Sure he is. I for one look forward to when we drop these asinine phrases like "manly-man" from casual conversation and start speaking with a better, broader, more meaningful, and richer kind of vocabulary.

Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained

#244

Post by Frondo »

engi_nerd wrote: post #231
gone35 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A little manly-man programming from the wrist and we move on to real problems." See... it's the little things like this. I am pretty sure that was not your intention, but please do know that turns of phrases like that hurt a little, and exclude a little. To see what I mean, s/man/jew/ or s/man/white/ or some other category and see how it reads.

I did the substitution in my head and the statement sounds silly. Just like "manly-man" sounds silly. Is this genuinely offensive and exclusive though?

To call it "offensive" may be a bit strong (though I'd say it's offensive to those of us who enjoy good use of language ;) ), but exclusive? Sure. It links superior programming and masculinity.

You're sitting in a conference room full of women who are developers, and you start saying, "So let's do some manly-man programming and get this done," what are these women supposed to think?

Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained

#245

Post by ra1n85 »

Frondo wrote: post #243
rcr wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't really be serious.

Sure he is. I for one look forward to when we drop these asinine phrases like "manly-man" from casual conversation and start speaking with a better, broader, more meaningful, and richer kind of vocabulary.

I for one look forward to when language can be used in a way that the original author sees fit and without having to pander to every gentle sensitivity or taste.

Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained

#246

Post by Frondo »

ra1n85 wrote: post #245
Frondo wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure he is. I for one look forward to when we drop these asinine phrases like "manly-man" from casual conversation and start speaking with a better, broader, more meaningful, and richer kind of vocabulary.

I for one look forward to when language can be used in a way that the original author sees fit and without having to pander to every gentle sensitivity or taste.

I don't know how the original author intended it, except that they seem to equate programming ability with masculinity.

If that's what they meant, that's a pretty retrograde attitude.

If that isn't what they meant, maybe it's time to update their vocabulary.

Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained

#247

Post by corndoge »

gone35 wrote: post #228
kabdib wrote: post #120

I'd heard over the years that working with isochronous systems was difficult. I'd done a number of real-time systems before, and written OS schedulers and NTP-like systems and so forth. A little audio work should be a walk in the park, right? A little manly-man programming from the wrist and we move on to real problems. So I walked into an audio project thinking that "Oh, this latency and synchronization stuff, how b…

"A little manly-man programming from the wrist and we move on to real problems." See... it's the little things like this. I am pretty sure that was not your intention, but please do know that turns of phrases like that hurt a little, and exclude a little. To see what I mean, s/man/jew/ or s/man/white/ or some other category and see how it reads.

So, if cultural-linguistic idioms make use of a specific gender, they shouldn't be used because someone might get offended? At some point you have to assume that the other party is mature enough to understand and tolerate speech that isn't exactly tailored to their gender or sexual preference or race or what have you. I'm not going to cut out all the parts of my vocabulary that aren't perfectly 'equal' in the eyes of another.

Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained

#248

Post by joenathan »

Frondo wrote: post #244
engi_nerd wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did the substitution in my head and the statement sounds silly. Just like "manly-man" sounds silly. Is this genuinely offensive and exclusive though?

To call it "offensive" may be a bit strong (though I'd say it's offensive to those of us who enjoy good use of language ;) ), but exclusive? Sure. It links superior programming and masculinity. You're sitting in a conference room full of women who are developers, and you start saying, "So let's do some manly-man programming and get this done," what are these women supposed to think?

One would hope they were mature enough to understand an idiom, and not so delicate that they would need to be handled with kid gloves.

Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained

#249

Post by kabdib »

gone35 wrote: post #228
kabdib wrote: post #120

I'd heard over the years that working with isochronous systems was difficult. I'd done a number of real-time systems before, and written OS schedulers and NTP-like systems and so forth. A little audio work should be a walk in the park, right? A little manly-man programming from the wrist and we move on to real problems. So I walked into an audio project thinking that "Oh, this latency and synchronization stuff, how b…

"A little manly-man programming from the wrist and we move on to real problems." See... it's the little things like this. I am pretty sure that was not your intention, but please do know that turns of phrases like that hurt a little, and exclude a little. To see what I mean, s/man/jew/ or s/man/white/ or some other category and see how it reads.

Well, if I wanted to offend, I would have. It is frankly no challenge to deliberately say something un-PC and widely offensive. It is also apparently little more challenging to utter something more subtle and more narrowly offensive.

I look at "manly man" depictions of, well, manly men (for instance, watch Kevin Kline's performance in A Fish Called Wanda) as parody. Monty Python did it. Mark Twain probably did it. Do they offend people? Sure. Do people not get the joke? Oh yeah. Did that stop the artists in question? Not really. Am I comparing myself to great artists? I'm not worthy, but I study at the feet of masters.

So, in my writing (and I've done a bit of it; look at my profile and my blog) I tend not to give a flying unmentionable about who I piss off. Now, HN is different because it's not my ball game here, but hey, if everyone wrote so as not to offend then the world would be a dull place. I've opposed what I believe is the actual evil -- Political Correctness -- for decades, and I'm not going to stop now.

I like to take language out and give it a violent shake. Have fun with it, see what it can do. I'm not going to change the world by substituting something benign and utterly unoffensive for "manly-man," so fuck it. That's what down-votes are for. I'm not even sure what I'd put there instead, quite frankly. Your suggestions don't preserve the meaning at all. Kevin Kline would be sad.

I regret that you were offended.

Now, can we Godwin this stupid thread and get it over with? Someone toss in the grenade, okay? in 10, 9, 8 . . .

Re: Android’s 10 Millisecond Problem explained

#250

Post by nulltype »

IvyMike wrote: post #156
squeaky-clean wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The audience doesn't need instant feedback and low latency, the performers do. If you listen to a classic rock album, you're hearing the sounds with a "latency" decades after they've been played. But the playing is cohesive and tight. If one of the guitarists was consistently 50ms off, you would notice it. > Most Android apps have more than 100 ms of audio output latency, and more than 200 ms of round-trip (audio inp…

> If one of the guitarists was consistently 50ms off, you would notice it. The best movie about this, ever: https://youtu.be/VnuImW1dWAk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKXy1FPTdvg
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