Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them • Hacker News Board

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#181

Post by yitchelle » Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 9:26 PM UTC

claudius wrote: post #88

yitchelle wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They seem far more compatible to ride sidewalks and co-travel with pedestrians. Pedestrians and bike riders are not compatible either. I am a bike commuter as well. I live in West Germany at the moment, but I have also bike commuted to work in Australia. In general, commuting in Germany is a much safer proposition than in Australia. The German drivers seem to be more aware and tolerance to the bike commuters. The b…

I’m cycling to work in Munich at the moment. There’s a little piece (~800m) of one-way street with traffic lights at both ends. Due to the layout of the initial traffic lights, cyclists usually enter that street before traffic, as they have to obey their special bike-traffic-light. On that street, cars attempt and do pass by me every day, despite there definitely not being enough room for a bike and a car to move nex…

I have heard that Munich drivers are crappy, joking :-)

I commute about 18Km into Cologne, and the traffic I come across have been pretty good. I even had the local bus follow me down a one lane street without much of a horn or flashing lights for about 1 km. In general, they treat me and the other bike riders like another car.

I have also commuted in other parts of Cologne, but also had good behaviour from the drivers.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#182

Post by rahimnathwani » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 12:23 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #173

rahimnathwani wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in China (Beijing and Shanghai) for ~5 years, and frequently ride bicycles and an electric Vespa-style scooter. Bicycles and scooters on the sidewalk, ridden by inconsiderate riders, are common, irritating and dangerous. The same is true of cars driving in cycle lanes or service lanes, and the myriad other thinga car drivers do to make life difficult for cyclists. Sure, cycling on the pavement may be in yo…

I've never asked anyone to change. Note how I described getting stuck and hearing chinese pedestrians admonish each other to let me by. If I get really stuck I get off and walk the bicycle. Bicycles on the sidewalk are fairly common. They're not dangerous.

> I've never asked anyone to change. Note how I described getting stuck and hearing chinese pedestrians admonish each other to let me by.

I've been that pedestrian. We're walking on the pavement. We become aware of someone behind us on a bicycle, who cannot get through unless we move aside. My friend suggests we stop at the side and let the bicycle pass. I reluctantly do so.

Did the cyclist ask me to change? No. Did the cyclist inconvenience me? Yes.

> Bicycles on the sidewalk are fairly common. They're not dangerous.

I was walking to work in Shanghai, ~90 minutes ago (shortly before 7am). A cyclist on the pavement nearly hit me. He was a foreigner wearing a business suit. He was cycling on a pavement which had explicit markings and bollards to separate what was a pedestrian walkway into two lanes (one for cycles). He was cycling along the (narrower) pedestrian part.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#183

Post by seanmcdirmid » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 12:26 AM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #182

thaumasiotes wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never asked anyone to change. Note how I described getting stuck and hearing chinese pedestrians admonish each other to let me by. If I get really stuck I get off and walk the bicycle. Bicycles on the sidewalk are fairly common. They're not dangerous.

> I've never asked anyone to change. Note how I described getting stuck and hearing chinese pedestrians admonish each other to let me by. I've been that pedestrian. We're walking on the pavement. We become aware of someone behind us on a bicycle, who cannot get through unless we move aside. My friend suggests we stop at the side and let the bicycle pass. I reluctantly do so. Did the cyclist ask me to change? No. Did…

Meh. At least it wasn't a fast moving electric bike. I know if I get killed in Beijing, it will be because of one of those little buggers.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#184

Post by jrock08 » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 3:57 AM UTC

rkischuk wrote: post #3

Almost every time I encounter cyclists in traffic, they context switch between vehicle and pedestrian at their convenience. If you want to be treated as a vehicle, be a vehicle. Don't block a lane between intersections and then ride the divider lines to advance ahead of cars at every intersection so they can wait and merge around you once the light turns. As a former bike commuter, I really don't understand why bikes…

Taking a lane while riding a bike is the safest thing to do when the road is too narrow because it prevents drivers from trying to "squeeze" by. It's also how people claim they want bikes to act, just act more like a car, unless it slightly annoys me. In which case, move over, ride on the shoulder while people blow by you without slowing down from going 15 over in a 30 mph zone.

Lane splitting/filtering at stop lights puts bikers in a safer and more visible position, in front of, instead of between vehicles. When I attempt to queue at lights, the car behind me will often inch up until I'm uncomfortable. If there is a car coming, I often wonder whether they "see" me, or whether I'm about to get caught between two cars having a fender bender, and end up leaving with two broken legs.

Sidewalks are not meant for bikes. The offset from the road, and expectation that traffic on them will move slowly leads to drivers pulling into them without actually checking for traffic. On many occasions while jogging I've almost ended up on someones hood, add a bike, and I'd have been across the hood and on the left side of the car before the driver even looked to his right for traffic.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#185

Post by regularfry » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 8:26 AM UTC

regularfry wrote: post #138

I've seen a few comments here using the example of "I see cycle couriers doing X, therefore cyclists are at fault". It's worth being cautious trying to learn much from the example of cycle couriers: they're disproportionately visible members of the cycling population, they spend all their working days on bikes so they're disproportionately good at it and very confident in their skills, added to which they are stereot…

I'd be intrigued to know why the downvote.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#186

Post by tuxdev » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 8:11 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #143

rkischuk wrote: post #3

Almost every time I encounter cyclists in traffic, they context switch between vehicle and pedestrian at their convenience. If you want to be treated as a vehicle, be a vehicle. Don't block a lane between intersections and then ride the divider lines to advance ahead of cars at every intersection so they can wait and merge around you once the light turns. As a former bike commuter, I really don't understand why bikes…

They seem far more compatible to ride sidewalks and co-travel with pedestrians. Please, no. The biggest nuisance I experience as a pedestrian are cyclists riding on the sidewalk.

I agree they're the biggest nuisance, but.. they're just a nuisance. I'm not fearing for my life from bikes like I do from cars all the time at almost every intersection.