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GNU Hurd 0.6 released

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Re: GNU Hurd 0.6 released

#101

Post by [deleted] »

cgag wrote: post #30
oldmanjay wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way you can consider this "quite similar" is if you are using a rhetorical flourish to manipulate the listener emotionally. Which is, of course, what is being done here, and not for the first time on this particular topic. Just remember, hyperbole serves no master. Employ it at the risk of having it employed right back against you.

The way I consider it quite similar is that the freedom to own slaves isn't a real freedom, neither is the freedom to use my code to restrict other people's freedom in computing.

[deleted]

Re: GNU Hurd 0.6 released

#102

Post by teythoon »

lmm wrote: post #93
pwaring wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The need for the GNU project and philosophy is still great, I'm not sure there's a need for the Hurd though. We already have a popular, well-supported (by companies and individuals) kernel which is available under the GPL (and another which is available under the BSD licence, which provides useful competition). I think it would be better if the GNU project put their full weight behind Linux rather than trying to work…

Linux has plenty of issues. It's more modular than it was it's a source-level monolith which means very poor support for old drivers that weren't merged into the tree for whatever reason. The recent tight coupling to systemd is making it much more so. The HURD design was always more elegant, and should result in a more stable and secure system. That's absolutely a project worth pursuing.

Hurd developer here. You are spot-on. The Hurd solves a problem today that Linux (and all the other monolithic systems) will never solve: Fault containment.

Re: GNU Hurd 0.6 released

#103

Post by fleitz »

pessimizer wrote: post #38
oldmanjay wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way you can consider this "quite similar" is if you are using a rhetorical flourish to manipulate the listener emotionally. Which is, of course, what is being done here, and not for the first time on this particular topic. Just remember, hyperbole serves no master. Employ it at the risk of having it employed right back against you.

Can't you just accept that other people are honestly seeing something that you're (not seeing/see but don't agree with) rather than accusing people who disagree with you on this of being cynically dishonest?

Are drivers licenses also a form of slavery because you're not allowed to drive with out one, and in order to keep it you have to follow most of the rules of the road?

Most people would say that it's ridiculous to compare drivers licenses to slavery, even libertarians will tell you it's a loss of freedom but few would compare it to slavery, because for the most part drivers licenses and slavery have nothing in common.

Re: GNU Hurd 0.6 released

#104

Post by lmm »

gtirloni wrote: post #97
lmm wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux has plenty of issues. It's more modular than it was it's a source-level monolith which means very poor support for old drivers that weren't merged into the tree for whatever reason. The recent tight coupling to systemd is making it much more so. The HURD design was always more elegant, and should result in a more stable and secure system. That's absolutely a project worth pursuing.

Are you saying the Linux kernel will show issues if not running in cooperation with systemd? Where's the tight coupling?

http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May...

Re: GNU Hurd 0.6 released

#105

Post by gtirloni »

lmm wrote: post #104
gtirloni wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying the Linux kernel will show issues if not running in cooperation with systemd? Where's the tight coupling?

http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May...

Got it, but that's systemd requiring the coupling not Linux (which I assumed you meant "the kernel"). If we're talking about distros, then yes, there is a very high coupling of the ecosystem to systemd. The kernel continues to be unaffected, mostly.

Re: GNU Hurd 0.6 released

#106

Post by Demiurge »

easytiger wrote: post #77
Demiurge wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's quite accessible. Good to know, thanks.

What a depressing attitude

Maybe go see a doctor about that. Just because I'm asking a question and then not committing righteous suicide because of how great my first world problems are, doesn't mean I actually expressed an opinion about driver signing in general, one way or another.

Re: GNU Hurd 0.6 released

#107

Post by belorn »

SEMW wrote: post #90
bcg1 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Richard Fontana analyzed Debian packages... guess what? Mostly GPL. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

It seems perfectly plausible that debian packages are mostly GPL while github is mostly MIT. (Eg Github first became popular in the ruby/rails community which tends to skew more MIT and corporate-friendly). I don't at all see the implication that the difference means someone's trying to lie with statistics.

The lies comes from people who uses the statistic to prove a change in society. The statistics is, as always, just data that is relevant in a specific context.

As to why github is mostly MIT, a reason I read is that github replaced private cvs, ftp and folders on ones laptop with a web service that has the dual functionality of work platform and collaboration platform. It follow the same path when people moved away from using office programs and started to use google docs.

Re: GNU Hurd 0.6 released

#108

Post by bcg1 »

SEMW wrote: post #90
bcg1 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Richard Fontana analyzed Debian packages... guess what? Mostly GPL. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

It seems perfectly plausible that debian packages are mostly GPL while github is mostly MIT. (Eg Github first became popular in the ruby/rails community which tends to skew more MIT and corporate-friendly). I don't at all see the implication that the difference means someone's trying to lie with statistics.

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to imply that anyone was lying.

Re: GNU Hurd 0.6 released

#109

Post by huxley »

bcg1 wrote: post #63
huxley wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was Linksys not Netgear. re: GPL/LGPL being the most successful software licenses, that seems to be changing in favour of permissive licenses like MIT/BSD/Apache Back in 2013, Aaron Williamson of the Software Freedom Law Center did an analysis of licenses used on Github. The MIT license outnumbered all variations of GPL + LGPL licenses combined, second to MIT on the list was BSD (of course, it should be mentione…

Richard Fontana analyzed Debian packages... guess what? Mostly GPL. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

I don't think Richard Fontana did the analysis, in his 2012 presentation entitled "The decline of the GPL and what to do about it" [1], he does refer to an analysis of Debian packages but that was done by John Sullivan (which was prompted by and counter to two analyses showing GPL's decline which were done by Matthew Aslett)

[1] "The decline of the GPL and what to do about it" https://events.linuxfoundation.org/images/stories/pdf/lfcs20...

Re: GNU Hurd 0.6 released

#110

Post by duncan_bayne »

alextgordon wrote: post #71
duncan_bayne wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're perfectly correct, of course. You bought it, you deal with it. I just don't understand why developers, of all people, persist with systems like OSX and Windows.

Many people prefer Apple hardware, and OS X gives a better experience on Apple hardware than Linux. (Ubuntu doesn't even provide a correct keyboard layout for my keyboard!)

That's what I don't get.

Yes, Apple hardware is nice (although the XPS13 and X1 push them pretty hard.

But I'd have thought that if there was a group that'd see beyond that and ask fundamental questions about openness, digital rights, etc. it'd be developers.

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