Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

L.A. school district ditches iPad curriculum

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 97 posts

Re: L.A. school district ditches iPad curriculum

#81

Post by Kluny »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #58
harperlee wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3-4 of her students will be shot dead within a mile of their home or school I honestly don't understand how can the united states live with that level of violence, seeing by themselves that they are the exception in the first world.

> I honestly don't understand how can the united states live with that level of violence Because the people on this forum and the US in general, I would venture to guess, don't live in poor, gang-riddled communities and hence don't see this level violence daily. I live in the same city and I've never seen it happen, only hear on the news and through people's discussions, because I don't _live_ in the parts she teache…

That's not sad, it's a sign of hope that however bad it is now, at least it's getting better and not worse. We can't fix these problems overnight, but the efforts we make do make a difference, and someday these issues will be the subject of history books and not the nightly news.

Re: L.A. school district ditches iPad curriculum

#82

Post by ovulator »

keithpeter wrote: post #40
ams6110 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you an education professional? I'm not, but I wonder why we don't go back to the model of segregating students by ability/need. It seems like the trend today is to "mainstream" everyone into a common classroom, so you have high achievers, low ability, as well as genuinely abnormal (mentally retarded, severe behavorial problems, etc.) all together. I see no way that can be effective for any of them because you wil…

I am a teacher. Ability/need isn't a scalar quantity and real students don't distribute themselves in a way that can be described by a couple of parameters. I don't know what the answers are either but I think we need to be very explicit about any assumptions underpinning proposed models. I also agree with the 'bottom up' part of the gf comment. Now, what discrete 'styles of instruction' are there do you think?

When I was in elementary school, we had different classes that were segregated by ability. We had different subjects with different teachers and different students, and students were moved to different classes as their abilities changed. So if I were good at reading I could be in the more advanced reading class, but if I were bad at math I would be in the lower math class. If I improved at math I would be moved to a more challenging math class.

Is this no longer the case? This was 3rd-6th grade, I don't remember much before those grades.

Re: L.A. school district ditches iPad curriculum

#83

Post by scott00 »

ams6110 wrote: post #34
jimhefferon wrote: post #19

Public discussion of education is always hampered by the fact that people not professionals in it have no sense of how complicated it is. Some students are genuises, some are cognitively low. Some students have personality disorders. Some students will soak up everything they see. Others don't care. Some students need to be a medical treatments at various times during the week. Some pray five times a day. Some are so…

Are you an education professional? I'm not, but I wonder why we don't go back to the model of segregating students by ability/need. It seems like the trend today is to "mainstream" everyone into a common classroom, so you have high achievers, low ability, as well as genuinely abnormal (mentally retarded, severe behavorial problems, etc.) all together. I see no way that can be effective for any of them because you wil…

So, not a teacher, but I have a lot of close friends who are teachers; this post is mostly informed by what they've told me about their experiences. First, I would say that segregation by ability is common in high school, but uncommon in elementary school. It can go either way in middle school.

So, in my mind, your question is mainly asking if increased amounts of differentiated instruction could benefit elementary school students. I've definitely heard way more about the difficulty of dealing with poorly behaved students than the difficulty of dealing with well-behaved, but low achieving students. That suggests segregating not along ability lines but rather along behavior/self-control lines.

If you run with that idea, and keep class sizes the same for well-behaved children and poorly behaved children, the "good" kids would probably benefit, but the "bad" classrooms would be completely out of control; in effect you would be completely writing those kids off at a very early age. Depending on the capability of the teachers and the difficulty of the student population, I personally think that might actually be a socially optimal use of resources. However, that is a very controversial opinion, and there are a whole lot of people who would not agree with me on that (and most of my teacher friends are among them).

If you go to very large classes for "good" kids, and very small classes for "bad" kids (say ~50 kids vs ~10), you have a different set of problems. A class of 50 8 year olds can get pretty hard to control, even if they're well-behaved 8 year olds. Plus, most schools don't have the facilities to accommodate classes that size. You can bet parents aren't going to be that pleased to have their kids in huge classes. And even if more individual attention is what the "bad" kids need, you still have the problem that you've labeled the bad kids as bad; they'll figure it out and it will probably have adverse affects on those kids' development. That may offset any benefit you're getting from the smaller class size in the "bad" population.

So I don't think it's actually the slam dunk it might seem from a casual analysis.

Re: L.A. school district ditches iPad curriculum

#84

Post by Lawtonfogle »

tomswartz07 wrote: post #32

I'm currently working at a school district in Lancaster, PA. We have gone with Linux laptops for all of our students. Even more, we've given them root access. We chose this because of exactly the points that many people are bringing up in these comments. What does the iPad offer to the pedagogical process? Not really that much outside of the sanitary iOS enviroment. Are they teaching kids about programming or compute…

This program was mentioned at POSSCON earlier this week as one of the ways open source is improving society.

Re: L.A. school district ditches iPad curriculum

#85

Post by Lawtonfogle »

S4M wrote: post #29
threatofrain wrote: post #10

Aside from how Pearson performed, I'm rather surprised that they choose to buy so many iPads. What does the iPad offer to the pedagogical process? Are they teaching kids about programming or computer skills? Probably not. Did they expect Pearson to produce an entire curriculum just for the iPad? Why not a website instead, which is so much more easily accessed and maintained? Did these schools want to be "technologica…

I am currently developing an education website. One of a big advantage of a tablet app over a website is that the app is available offline.

You have to consider children who do not have access to the internet or who are limited to only dial up access. And saying 'the library' when it is 15 miles away doesn't help. That said, a laptop with Linux and some offline programs still seems the best choice.

Re: L.A. school district ditches iPad curriculum

#86

Post by justathrow2k »

ocb wrote: post #75
harperlee wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3-4 of her students will be shot dead within a mile of their home or school I honestly don't understand how can the united states live with that level of violence, seeing by themselves that they are the exception in the first world.

The missing context here that no other comments have mentioned is that the violence in question here is almost certainly perpetrated by and against poor blacks. Race relations in the US--particularly those between the black urban poor and whites--are definitely not ideal. I'm sure you've seen media coverage of the Michael Brown shooting and related incidents. It's a terrible situation that most people aren't motivate…

The missing context isn't race - the context needed was already there, being in the inner city and exposed to gangs. Simply put, the whole United States isn't like this because there aren't more black people across the entire country, but because the entire country isn't made up of inner city areas with high gang activity.

Re: L.A. school district ditches iPad curriculum

#87

Post by [deleted] »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #84
tomswartz07 wrote: post #32

I'm currently working at a school district in Lancaster, PA. We have gone with Linux laptops for all of our students. Even more, we've given them root access. We chose this because of exactly the points that many people are bringing up in these comments. What does the iPad offer to the pedagogical process? Not really that much outside of the sanitary iOS enviroment. Are they teaching kids about programming or compute…

This program was mentioned at POSSCON earlier this week as one of the ways open source is improving society.

[deleted]

Re: L.A. school district ditches iPad curriculum

#88

Post by threatofrain »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #15
threatofrain wrote: post #10

Aside from how Pearson performed, I'm rather surprised that they choose to buy so many iPads. What does the iPad offer to the pedagogical process? Are they teaching kids about programming or computer skills? Probably not. Did they expect Pearson to produce an entire curriculum just for the iPad? Why not a website instead, which is so much more easily accessed and maintained? Did these schools want to be "technologica…

> Did they expect Pearson to produce an entire curriculum just for the iPad? More or less, yes: "Under the contract, Pearson was to provide English and math curriculum." > Why not a website instead The article says "Deasy had said the technology effort was a civil rights imperative designed to provide low-income students with devices available to their wealthier peers." It's easy for you and me to assume that every m…

I'm not sure what the iPad does to bridge the gap of socioeconomic disparity, and I'm not sure whether the iPad is a fitting purchase vs. obvious alternatives.

If I were given executive control and a budget, I would work on adding/improving computer labs. For the minority of students who would benefit from a home computer, I would offer a laptop leasing program.

The difference is that the inclusion of the iPad has nothing to do with the iPad. Kids aren't learning about iOS, mobile apps, or how the iPad works. The iPad is a coincidental delivery mechanism.

Contrast that to a computer lab, which is not merely a mechanism to deliver existing math and English content, but also potentially a classroom for computer lessons. It doesn't just provide access. It provides a potential for technology class. That's guided access beyond all the dumb distractions that computers might offer. The iPad is stuck as a coincidental delivery mechanism. You don't even want to do word processing on the iPad.

If at a later time people develop good interactive content that meaningfully surpasses the performance of obvious alternatives, it's not as though your desktop/laptop/computer lab would be any less capable in interactive content. In the meantime, I wonder if the iPad is actually competitive over math textbooks.

Re: L.A. school district ditches iPad curriculum

#89

Post by pfranz »

jimhefferon wrote: post #19

Public discussion of education is always hampered by the fact that people not professionals in it have no sense of how complicated it is. Some students are genuises, some are cognitively low. Some students have personality disorders. Some students will soak up everything they see. Others don't care. Some students need to be a medical treatments at various times during the week. Some pray five times a day. Some are so…

Another thing I've seen that people don't realize is that grant money is usually earmarked for cool things. If someone donates money to a school they'd want it to go to a new state-of-the-art technology program instead of replacing old books, buying copier paper, or other more useful, boring things.

Re: L.A. school district ditches iPad curriculum

#90

Post by pfranz »

granfalloon wrote: post #27
threatofrain wrote: post #10

Aside from how Pearson performed, I'm rather surprised that they choose to buy so many iPads. What does the iPad offer to the pedagogical process? Are they teaching kids about programming or computer skills? Probably not. Did they expect Pearson to produce an entire curriculum just for the iPad? Why not a website instead, which is so much more easily accessed and maintained? Did these schools want to be "technologica…

"Are they teaching kids about programming or computer skills?" I had a friend tell me recently how her young child "loved computers and was really good with them," but clarified by saying he was "always playing with his iPad." I'm not a professional programmer, but I did develop my strong interest in computers while playing around with (and often breaking) my parents' PC as a kid, and I've heard the same from many en…

I think that all peaked in the mid-to-late 90's when software and hardware was progressing so fast you had to eek as much as possible out of your older hardware. My girlfriend will say she got comfortable with computer hardware when she spilled soda on her's in college and could only afford to replace it with an older model. She opened it up to upgrade the RAM because it was so terrible. This led her to build her next few computers.

Prior to ubiquitous tablets and smartphones I had heard similar things you mention except the classifier was, "always spending time on Facebook."

As an interesting aside, I've heard people assert the computer industry is male-dominated because radio shack and others marketed computers as toys for males back in the 80's-90's. This carried over to first year comp sci where males had a leg-up and discouraged otherwise just as qualified females. They had a few anecdotes where young girls were more interested in the home computer than their brothers, but the computer was kept in their brother's room because of this stigma.

Post reply on HN