Anyone using this professionally?
Pharo 4.0 Released
11–20 of 81 posts
Re: Pharo 4.0 Released
#12Anyone using this professionally?
Re: Pharo 4.0 Released
#13It still has a strange non-native user interface. Why would I want another window system in a window in 2015?
So does iTunes on windows and Qt (since v. 4) on everything. But I agree the single-window MDI is a major drawback. I keep checking out Pharo periodically and hoping a UI with multiple, native windows will be present or at least in the works, but sadly that is not yet the case. There was actually a project many years ago for Squeak to give it native OS windows called Cheese, and the Squeak people, if you can believe…
With the new OSWindows you can create multiple native windows.
But... this is cool to allow people to do their stuff, but it does not match very well with the development philosophy of Pharo, where we open many windows at the same time. Imagine 20+ browsers, inspectors, playgrounds opened, all mixed with your regular browsers, mail, any kind of applications and you will understand why we prefer to keep the MDI.
Said that... we actually want to support SDI also for development (optional for users), but this is a lot of work and will take a lot of effort. But we'll arrive there, with time (and help).
Re: Pharo 4.0 Released
#14Did the compiler overhaul happen in this version?
it happened previous version (3.0), this version we started to actually use it :)
Re: Pharo 4.0 Released
#15The changelog is here: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-changelogs/blob/maste... Things that I find especially interesting, from new stuff: > TxModel, a modern text model who works with Athens (Preview) This is very, very nice. New text model was in the works for quite some time now and I'm glad it finally landed. Easy and powerful text editing is important, even in primarily GUI-driven environments. Pharo was…
OSWindow is working nice for the three major platforms, using a SDL2 backend.
Re: Pharo 4.0 Released
#16Not having heard of Pharo before 10 minutes ago, I wish this website did a better job of explaining what it is.
"... an object-oriented programming language and a powerful environment... (think IDE and OS rolled into one)"
An IDE and OS rolled into one? What does that even mean? I had to go to Wikipedia to learn that this is basically a modern Smalltalk implementation. So why not just say that on the main page?
I once took a glance at IBM's Smalltalk about 20 years ago (in fact, these IDE screenshots remind me of the "VisualAge" IDE that eventually morphed from Smalltalk to Java and was then re-invented as Eclipse). However, I don't know enough about Smalltalk itself for this website to be informative. Does it compile to executables, or does it require an interpreter or VM at runtime? Can applications be built from command-line (or a build script on a CI server), or is it tightly coupled with the IDE? The Wikipedia article mentions some web frameworks, but the Pharo website shows screenshots of what appear to be desktop GUI applications (or maybe data visualizations running inside the IDE, a la R with RStudio?).
Maybe someone with some hands-on experience could provide a TL;DR, for those who aren't willing to read the full book just to get a high-level sense of this?
Re: Pharo 4.0 Released
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
So does iTunes on windows and Qt (since v. 4) on everything. But I agree the single-window MDI is a major drawback. I keep checking out Pharo periodically and hoping a UI with multiple, native windows will be present or at least in the works, but sadly that is not yet the case. There was actually a project many years ago for Squeak to give it native OS windows called Cheese, and the Squeak people, if you can believe…
With the new OSWindows you can create multiple native windows. But... this is cool to allow people to do their stuff, but it does not match very well with the development philosophy of Pharo, where we open many windows at the same time. Imagine 20+ browsers, inspectors, playgrounds opened, all mixed with your regular browsers, mail, any kind of applications and you will understand why we prefer to keep the MDI. Said…
Multiple (native) windows + tabbed browsing is IMO better than a single-window MDI. Remember Linux and other Unix desktops already support multiple virtual desktops to manage many windows; you shouldn't try to reinvent this in Pharo.
Re: Pharo 4.0 Released
#18It still has a strange non-native user interface. Why would I want another window system in a window in 2015?
You would want it because its implemented in Pharo and because Pharo allow you to easily hack the system that means you can make the interface look any way you want without having to mess with C libraries. Also being Pharo it is part of the live system and it also push pharo development towards visual coding. As someone else pointed out already Pharo is a virtual OS, so having its own GUI API part of its very powerful live enviroment is very crucial. You can use external GUI APIs but you lose the ability to live code them which is what is the main goal of Pharo anyway. Personally I love the look of the user interface and even though there is dated MacOS theme I prefer using this theme. But one can create any theme he wants if looks are that important to him.
Re: Pharo 4.0 Released
#19Not having heard of Pharo before 10 minutes ago, I wish this website did a better job of explaining what it is. "... an object-oriented programming language and a powerful environment... (think IDE and OS rolled into one)" An IDE and OS rolled into one? What does that even mean? I had to go to Wikipedia to learn that this is basically a modern Smalltalk implementation. So why not just say that on the main page? I onc…
"Does it compile to executables, or does it require an interpreter or VM at runtime?"
It looks like they are still using (since 2010) the COG VM, which is a fast jitting VM, but I think they have others in works to replace/improve it.
Re: Pharo 4.0 Released
#20It still has a strange non-native user interface. Why would I want another window system in a window in 2015?
You would want it because its implemented in Pharo and because Pharo allow you to easily hack the system that means you can make the interface look any way you want without having to mess with C libraries. Also being Pharo it is part of the live system and it also push pharo development towards visual coding. As someone else pointed out already Pharo is a virtual OS, so having its own GUI API part of its very powerfu…
It's beyond my understanding why non-native windows, buttons, menus, etc. are a requirement for 'live-coding' or 'visual coding'.