Live data from Hacker News

The Right Dose of Exercise for a Longer Life

well.blogs.nytimes.com

41–50 of 54 posts

Re: The Right Dose of Exercise for a Longer Life

#41

For me it always comes back to: what are people's long, long term goals. Overall? Is it a longer life? Do you want to live an extra five years? I personally don't think that's a good goal. I'd much rather be in good shape, mobile, healthy and relatively pain free for my 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and as far into my 70s as I can manage than to increase my lifespan from 85-90. It's way less about eking out a few more years of…

Five more years of life is five more years for the current state of the art to work on giving you another five years after that.

Re: The Right Dose of Exercise for a Longer Life

#42

I always wonder to what degree this kind of study might invert causality: that is, people who are subclinically "ill" may be less likely to exercise in the first place because it is harder or less pleasant for them. Someone with, for example, undiagnosed but significant cardiovascular disease (unfortunately very common: in many cases the first sign anyone recognizes as concerning is a heart attack) is likely to have…

Note that the biggest reduction in mortality was found in people who walked for an hour a day. Yet that group probably contained the most of what you call "subclinically ill". After all that's one of the easiest forms of exercise and there is a higher likelihood it will be chosen by people with health problems, diagnosed or not.

Re: The Right Dose of Exercise for a Longer Life

#43

For me it always comes back to: what are people's long, long term goals. Overall? Is it a longer life? Do you want to live an extra five years? I personally don't think that's a good goal. I'd much rather be in good shape, mobile, healthy and relatively pain free for my 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and as far into my 70s as I can manage than to increase my lifespan from 85-90. It's way less about eking out a few more years of…

Young people say this a lot, but I don't hear people in their 80s say it. When my grandpa was dying in his mid-80s, it really hit home for me how scary it is. Even if you've had a fulfilling, long life, dying still sucks. For young people, another year of life for an 80 year old doesn't seem like much, but to an 80 year old it means the world.

> Young people say this a lot, but I don't hear people in their 80s say it.

When you are young those five years don't look that attractive: you are older, slower, half your friends and family are gone, you might not have any money to support the life you want depending how the economy goes, and so forth - so having a bit more fun now seems like a good compromise. Once you get older then you realise that any time is worth having as there are still more things you want to do and more time you want to spend with people than you might have time for left.

Of course having too much "fun" now means that your old decrepit years come sooner because your body will fall apart faster, so that really isn't the good compromise is might seem to some - you start paying in good years as well as the later ones you might be dreading at this point in your life.

To be far far more flippant about it, my reasoning up to a few years ago was:

"My main worry is being able to afford to live a content life beyond a certain point so my current pension plan is to not live long enough to need a good pension. Hence my drinking habit: I'm investing heavily in cirrhosis futures!"

Having started to see some of my older friends in bad conditions, various people in my life having less serious but still significant health scares, I changed my mind about that quite a bit. Had I not decided to shape up back then, an old friend my own age (mid 30s) shuffle off to the crematorium rather prematurely recently might have made me do it. I might not care about those last few years in my 80s now, but I certainly care about hanging around for a good few years yet. I've got places to see and people to do!

Re: The Right Dose of Exercise for a Longer Life

#44

I always wonder to what degree this kind of study might invert causality: that is, people who are subclinically "ill" may be less likely to exercise in the first place because it is harder or less pleasant for them. Someone with, for example, undiagnosed but significant cardiovascular disease (unfortunately very common: in many cases the first sign anyone recognizes as concerning is a heart attack) is likely to have…

Causality often gets confused particularly by the time the results make it to the popular press. Studies of alcohol intake against mortality often show the effect. Scientists find drinkers drop dead slower than non drinkers, the the newspaper reports it as a glass of wine a day protects your health. The reality is people like drinking but you've got to be reasonably fit to take the damage it causes.

Re: The Right Dose of Exercise for a Longer Life

#45
post #30

>The sweet spot for exercise benefits, however, came among those who tripled the recommended level of exercise, working out moderately, mostly by walking, for 450 minutes per week, or a little more than an hour per day. Those people were 39 percent less likely to die prematurely than people who never exercised.

That seems difficult for a sedentary adult living in suburban America who drives their car to work and sits at a desk all day, but for cultures that do more walking - ie in cities that are more laid out for walking and public transportation - an hour of walking per day is almost an afterthought. In Dubrovnik, Croatia, for instance, a small city largely built on the side of a mountain (https://moremojitosplease.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/dubrovnik...), I've never done so much cardiovascular exercise inadvertently just by living there for a week. I also noticed that very few people, if any, were overweight. In fact most cities I've been to in Europe seem to be quite good for walking. The ramifications of this study should certainly be factored in to city planning.

Re: The Right Dose of Exercise for a Longer Life

#46
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or indeed other causes which could create an accidental correlation. The more you eat the fatter you're likely to be, the fatter you are the harder exercise is, the less of it you're likely to do. The more you smoke, the more out of breath you'll get when exercising, the less of it you're likely to do. These are two examples I personally feel contribute to my not getting as much exercise as I did 10 years ago. If I d…

A well-run study should control for weight and smoking. But the undiagnosed cardiovascular disease can't be controlled for. Exercise is much harder for me than for others, for example, and I don't know why.

"Exercise is much harder for me than for others, for example, and I don't know why."

genetics can partially account for the lack of improvement after training, one specific gene "alpha-actinin 3 (speed gene)". The other component is environment.

    Why is it that some people respond better 
    to training than others? Are you a sprinter 
    or a marathon runner?
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4132778.htm

Re: The Right Dose of Exercise for a Longer Life

#48

I always wonder to what degree this kind of study might invert causality: that is, people who are subclinically "ill" may be less likely to exercise in the first place because it is harder or less pleasant for them. Someone with, for example, undiagnosed but significant cardiovascular disease (unfortunately very common: in many cases the first sign anyone recognizes as concerning is a heart attack) is likely to have…

Anecdotally, yes, I think you may be on to something.

For example, I suffer from persistent but relatively mild skin problems which make getting the right amount of exercise difficult without causing more pain.

I know I walk less than I should do, but I can't do more without causing more problems for myself.

Re: The Right Dose of Exercise for a Longer Life

#49
post #2

I'm glad we're getting a better understanding of how much these variables contribute toward longevity and well-being. Now we just have to come up with a plan to deal with the challenges of people living far longer. I don't know if I'm alone in noticing this, but there appears to be a larger divide in society along these lines opening up. More people seem to be exercising than ever - almost every guy I know has a gym…

> More people seem to be exercising than ever - almost every guy I know has a gym membership, is taking part in a sport, or goes hiking, or whatever - where previously the same people may have been thin/healthy but sedentary.

That's because more of our interactions are moving online than offline so you see people at their best and not how they typically are. ;-)

Re: The Right Dose of Exercise for a Longer Life

#50

For me it always comes back to: what are people's long, long term goals. Overall? Is it a longer life? Do you want to live an extra five years? I personally don't think that's a good goal. I'd much rather be in good shape, mobile, healthy and relatively pain free for my 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and as far into my 70s as I can manage than to increase my lifespan from 85-90. It's way less about eking out a few more years of…

Young people say this a lot, but I don't hear people in their 80s say it. When my grandpa was dying in his mid-80s, it really hit home for me how scary it is. Even if you've had a fulfilling, long life, dying still sucks. For young people, another year of life for an 80 year old doesn't seem like much, but to an 80 year old it means the world.

Ahh, but do the people committed to dying young generally live to their 80s?

Beware selection effects in all things.

Post reply on HN