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Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

washingtonpost.com

51–60 of 186 posts

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#51
post #27

This article is mostly nonsense. The way I look at it, mandatory helmet laws are protecting not only cyclists but also drivers by reducing the likelihood of a serious injury resulting from an accident. In regards to improving bike-ability, adding more bike lanes is certainly the best way forward. Meanwhile we can encourage responsible bike use for those who share the roadways with motor vehicles. I'm frankly appalled…

Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll pass a mandatory adult helmet law." Now they have two problems.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#52
Some facts about cycling in the Netherlands:

- After dark, head- and taillights are mandatory for cyclists, and you will be fined if you don't have them.

- Cycling on the sidewalk is prohibited. This too is enforced.

- Cyclists in the Netherlands are not generally very respectful of traffic laws - they will run red lights when they can.

- Practically nobody wears helmets.

- 184 cyclist deaths in 2013 (out of +- 10 million active cyclists)

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#53
Someone once told me that bicycles have no business being on the road at all. I thought they were just bitter due to an altercation, but the more I thought about it - it's entirely logical. Most roads are simply not built for bicycles and that is why they shouldn't be allowed at this point. They become a hazard because they can't attain the proper speed and they are allowed to flop between acting like a cyclist and acting like a car as another poster mentioned.

It's hip to give bikers the nod because they are green and healthy but it's not feasible in most areas because it's simply not safe for both parties.

I looked into getting one of those GE electric vehicles but guess what - you can't take those on most roads because they aren't fast enough (even though they are faster and safer than most bikers). You even have to pay to register them and carry insurance (which bikers don't). Why pays when a cyclist causes an accident? If you drive your car 25 under the speed limit, you can get a ticket. People on bikes want to be congratulated for doing so and have everyone yield.

You can't run down the middle of the road even if you are faster than some cyclists. Nobody has a right to the roads. It's a privilege and most roads were designed for cars.

I'd rather see bikers using the sidewalk with pedestrians yielding to them and let them use designated bike lanes on roads (and lobby for more if they choose). More and more areas are becoming friendly to cyclists but to give nearly free reign to cyclists is absurd IMO.

The reality is - too many people suck at driving and you aren't getting rid of cars unless you're Venice, Italy. Even if you can go the same speed as legally required for cars (say on a motorcycle), it's pretty much only a matter of time before you get pasted on the asphalt because some idiot driver didn't see you, was distracted with their phone, or is just a bad driver. The notion that cyclists can avoid that fate is silly. Personally I'd love to have a motorcycle, but it's too risky here in California.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#54
post #3

Almost every time I encounter cyclists in traffic, they context switch between vehicle and pedestrian at their convenience. If you want to be treated as a vehicle, be a vehicle. Don't block a lane between intersections and then ride the divider lines to advance ahead of cars at every intersection so they can wait and merge around you once the light turns. As a former bike commuter, I really don't understand why bikes…

The thing is, they are neither, really. Bicycles are not comparable to motor vehicles, as they are much slower (50 km/h vs ~15-20 km/h). Bicycles are also not comparable to pedestrians, as they are much faster (5 km/h vs ~15-20 km/h). I think it's a mistake to mix traffic that differs in speed by a factor of 3. As someone who moved from the Netherlands to London, it has taken me years to adjust to absence of real bic…

I agree. When would you like to exchange your car for a bicycle when the roads are turned back over to pedestrians and cyclists? Road bike or mountain bike?

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#55
post #42
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I totally understand that it must've felt menacing to nearly have been hit by a bicycle, do you _really_ think it would've killed you? I also think that cyclists shouldn't ride at speed on the sidewalk, but even if, cyclists causing pedestrian fatalities is extremely rare. It has happened, but it's statistically insignificant when compared to cars killing pedestrians. There is a big difference between getting h…

Does something have to be fatal before it's worth doing something about? Serious injury doesn't count?

In the overall road toll, hardly any fatalities are caused by cyclists. In fact, most accidents involving cyclist are caused by drivers.[1]

Don't get me wrong, all of it counts and is sad and regrettable. I do however think there is an anti-cyclist bias ingrained in the perception and reporting of it's dangers, that's out of whack with the real numbers on accidents.

[1] http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3758...

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#56
post #34
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get your argument. Just because the lack of X does not excuse behavior Y doesn't mean that the presence of X isn't advisable. For instance, if you collide your automobile into another automobile because you didn't have a rear view mirror, that obviously is not an excuse. And yet, it is still reasonable to advise (and indeed require) that automobiles have rear view mirrors.

A cyclist in London died. I can't recall the guys name but probably can find the information for you if you insist. He had a Flare rear light, reflective jacket, and even during the court case witnesses testified to the brightness of the light and it's effectiveness. The weather and conditions were good. The driver still used the SMIDSY defence, still walked free with little more than a fine. At what point do we stop…

There's no contradiction here. I think that the case as you described it is ludicrous, and I still think it's prudent for cyclists to take measures to increase their visibility.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#57
post #21

As a cyclist, I am more than happy to see tech that makes me more visible! Why are people up in arms!!? So stupid.

He's not in arms against the tech, but rather against the laws that make them mandatory. Because it encourages motor vehicle drivers even more to not properly pay attention because they're not the ones at fault when hitting a cyclist.

No, he really does seem up in arms against the tech even when it has no relation to laws making the tech mandatory. He writes:

> That’s just the beginning! Because now Volvo — those endearingly safety-minded Swedes — wants cyclists to take “safety” a step further and spray themselves with something called “Lifepaint” so they glow in the dark.

> This is just another way for drivers to outsource any and all responsibility for what they do with their cars to other road users. The giveaway? Volvo’s promotional video is full of testimonials, including this one from a driver: ...

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#58
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a cyclist in the U.S., but have no problem admitting that probably 90% of the time, the cyclist is at fault. I've ridden bikes in Europe with real bike lanes—U.S. urban cycling culture is not Dutch cycling culture. There is not a culture of responsible cycling. We don't have real bike lanes. We don't stop for red lights. We don't stop for pedestrians. As a result, the U.S. also does not have many drivers or pedes…

Come to NYC. We have Citibike here and messengers and delivery people on bikes. And it's horrible. The bicyclists ROUTINELY violate nearly every sane traffic law on the books. They go the wrong way against traffic, refuse to stop for stop lights or pedestrians in crosswalks, ride on sidewalks, have few if any safety features like headlights or taillights, and on and on. If cyclists would simply follow the traffic law…

In New York cars routinely violate every law on parking, they break the speed limit on every block, change lanes without signaling, and block intersections.

If cars would simply follow the laws that already exist there would be many fewer deadly accidents between cars and people who die when hit.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#59
post #52

Some facts about cycling in the Netherlands: - After dark, head- and taillights are mandatory for cyclists, and you will be fined if you don't have them. - Cycling on the sidewalk is prohibited. This too is enforced. - Cyclists in the Netherlands are not generally very respectful of traffic laws - they will run red lights when they can. - Practically nobody wears helmets. - 184 cyclist deaths in 2013 (out of +- 10 mi…

Cycling ban on sidewalks is not really enforced though. At least in Amsterdam from what I experienced.

But people rarely drive on sidewalks, they don't need to with bicycle paths being really everywhere.

On the other hand you get scooter drivers speeding crazily on the very same bike paths. I've heard it's actually legal but I'm not sure.

Re: Don’t make bicyclists more visible. Make drivers stop hitting them

#60

This is one of the nice things about moving to France. You can ride your bike on a narrow road without a shoulder where cars routinely pass you going 70mph, and never really worry about being taken out. Bikes are things that are found on roads here, so cars just go around them. Usually all the way over in the far lane. I've never had a car come closer than 2m when passing me on the road. No surprise, since they have…

Wow, 2m? We just got a law passed here to make it 90cm (there was no specified distance before).
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