Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw • Hacker News Board

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#171

Post by jace » Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 4:26 AM UTC

derekp7 wrote: post #166

carapace wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better just internet. It's like McDonald's building "free" roads that you can use to reach McDonald's, but if you want to go anywhere else you have to pay tolls. It is unbelievably self-serving and for Zuckerburg to dissemble on that point is wildly disingenuous. "Well, at least they can reach McDonald's" is not a good argument against just building roads and letting people drive wherever.

To me it sounds like McDonalds sending out a free shuttle bus to pick you up, but the shuttle only takes you to McDonalds (and not Wendy's or whatever). This actually exists with things like free hotel airport shuttles.

But you're assured you've just seen the entire city and you're done and can go back now.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#172

Post by loceng » Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 4:35 AM UTC

sriku wrote: post #157

manish_gill wrote: post #28

After limited protest/outrage in communities like /r/india, the news finally hit big when a comedy group AIB decided to make a video explaining what Net Neutrality is: https://youtu.be/mfY1NKrzqi0 and then it finally hit mainstream media. Amid pressure from everywhere, Flipkart finally withdrew from the Airtel Zero deal which would have been a blow to Net Neutrality in India. Of course, next step was Internet.org and…

> Btw, this was Zuckerburg's response when posed this question: https://i.imgur.com/PAwf6e3.png "Some connectivity is better than no connectivity, hence the violation of NN is justified" That is not a literal quote. Here is the actual quote from that image - "For people who are not on the internet though, having some connectivity and some ability to share is always much better than no ability to connect and share at…

Another great Zuckerburg quote for the internet history books..

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#173

Post by ravipratapm » Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 4:52 AM UTC

I think this is a very positive development. In the end, Internet.org and Airtel Zero are not very different in their scant regard for net neutrality.

It's also indicative of just how huge the public debate has become. Indian companies (and the media) have had to very publicly retract on their earlier stand on the issue.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#174

Post by bjelkeman-again » Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 5:03 AM UTC

jace wrote: post #117

denzil_correa wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having no organization like EFF is something that needs to be fixed. I think the closest organization to EFF that India has is the Centre for Internet & Society (CIS). Though, the aim of CIS isn't about digital civil rights like EFF. It is more to study Internet related policy with respect to India. Many times, CIS does take similar stands to that of EFF would given the situation. http://cis-india.org

Because there is no tradition of funding civil society organisations in India, CIS is mostly foreign-funded. That puts them under the purview of FCRA, which means they are explicitly forbidden from lobbying and politics, at risk of having their funding cut off. They necessarily have to limit themselves to policy research. CIS is not and will never be the EFF of India until the FCRA rules change. We need another organ…

Are there not enough people interested in this type of thing today in India to try to start an EFF equivalent?

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#175

Post by danraile » Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 5:03 AM UTC

manish_gill wrote: post #28

After limited protest/outrage in communities like /r/india, the news finally hit big when a comedy group AIB decided to make a video explaining what Net Neutrality is: https://youtu.be/mfY1NKrzqi0 and then it finally hit mainstream media. Amid pressure from everywhere, Flipkart finally withdrew from the Airtel Zero deal which would have been a blow to Net Neutrality in India. Of course, next step was Internet.org and…

What is the source of that Constine/Zuckerberg exchange?

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#176

Post by sumedh » Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 5:08 AM UTC

yellowapple wrote: post #110

exacube wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the argument for competition, but I don't think that freedom is as important as the freedom of communication and education. Imagine someone in the slums of India (there are tens of millions in these conditions) wanting to learn more about irrigation. Is it more important that they have no limited internet for the sake for competition, or limited internet?

Neither is important if they have offline-cached copies of Wikipedia (all the content of which is readily available for download and made available under a CC-BY-SA / GNU GFDL dual-license), which can then be distributed on optical media, thumb drives, or some other relatively-inexpensive data distribution medium. This is something that's totally compatible with net neutrality while providing the same benefits you're…

Poor people in India have cheap smartphones but they dont have PCs so optical media, thumb drives are useless to them.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#177

Post by sumedh » Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 5:09 AM UTC

yellowapple wrote: post #111

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, most of those 620K emails (which isn't a lot at Indian scale) by definition, come from people that already have internet access. Its sad, whatever you think about FB, getting more people access to Wikipedia is clearly a good thing (fixing illiteracy would be better, clearly).

You can do that by distributing offline copies of Wikipedia.

How are you going to fit Wikipedia on a cheap smartphone which most poor/lower middle class Indians use. Most of them dont even have a PC.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#178

Post by dummyfellow » Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 5:51 AM UTC

carapace wrote: post #146

fwn wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better no internet than facebook? Sounds cynic.

Better just internet. It's like McDonald's building "free" roads that you can use to reach McDonald's, but if you want to go anywhere else you have to pay tolls. It is unbelievably self-serving and for Zuckerburg to dissemble on that point is wildly disingenuous. "Well, at least they can reach McDonald's" is not a good argument against just building roads and letting people drive wherever.

well, there is also an alternative road where you always pay toll, no matter where you wanna go, so most people from the village have never gone out.

Also, to be in good books McDonalds is giving access to school and hospital also for free.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#179

Post by dummyfellow » Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 5:58 AM UTC

internet.org is a good idea to accelerate internet adoption in developing economies, but an honest one should be open to all companies, any company can join in by providing $x/GB and be part of the program, with x remaining constant for all and no special/hidden contracts. They may also favor startups by giving 1st n MB/GB free.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#180

Post by look_lookatme » Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 6:35 AM UTC

nileshtrivedi wrote: post #113

lukevdp wrote: post #108

Internet.org is offering a free service to people who would otherwise have no access to the Internet. Net neutrality on a free service in a developing country is an entirely different issue than net neutrality in developed countries with high Internet access rates. I see similarities between this and GMO in developing countries, where rich, well fed people in developed countries oppose gmo in countries that can't fee…

You should read Cleartrip's statement when they exited internet.org today. Especially, this bit: "So while our original intent was noble, it is impossible to pretend there is no conflict of interest (both real and perceived) in our decision to be a participant in Internet.org." The protests are not against free data at all. Internet.org could have very well given 100megabytes/month free. They could support it with ad…

I am happy that the service providers in India will continue forth expanding into poor and under-serviced areas without a large subsidy to free them of cost-benefit decisions.

I'm sure they will operate in the best interest of the public.