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Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

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Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#141

Post by thetruthseeker1 »

exacube wrote: post #91

Can someone give me a good argument as to why no internet is better than free limited internet with facebook + google search + wikipedia? If Facebook will provide free limited internet (and as always, you can pay regularly to get full internet access) for a lot of basic service, it only seems reasonable they will package their facebook and messenger apps as well. On the whole, do you think internet.org is a bad, nega…

This is not a black and white scenario as you have characterized or how Mark Z has characterized.

As more and more people come out of poverty, they will be able to access basic services such as water, electricity and data plans. There is no reason why data plans is the only service among the three services that needs to be free. If it is free, it is the government that should provide it rather than private corporations whose single interest is profit.

Now, people who are super poor may not be able to pay for electricity let alone will access free internet.

Either way, FB and bunch of other companies want to profit out of the people who are uninformed and these people may end up buying only services and products from those limited free websites that they get from free internet.

It also looks like the telecom services might take advantage of this and partner with some companies provide selective access to some websites and the biggest losers of this kind of partnership could be companies that dont have enough capital to pay each of the telecom providers to be in their "basic package"

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#142

Post by na85 »

napperjabber wrote: post #112
Mahn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://i.imgur.com/PAwf6e3.png "Some connectivity is better than no connectivity, hence the violation of NN is justified" Does he really not see the enormous liability that a precedent like this can create?

There is a bigger picture you're not aware of that is in play here. Zuckerberg is providing free internet to millions.

No, what he's doing is providing free Facebook so that his user base increases, so he has more people's privacy to exploit, mine for data, and then sell to the highest bidder.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#143

Post by rocky1138 »

manish_gill wrote: post #28

After limited protest/outrage in communities like /r/india, the news finally hit big when a comedy group AIB decided to make a video explaining what Net Neutrality is: https://youtu.be/mfY1NKrzqi0 and then it finally hit mainstream media. Amid pressure from everywhere, Flipkart finally withdrew from the Airtel Zero deal which would have been a blow to Net Neutrality in India. Of course, next step was Internet.org and…

In some ways I agree with Zuckerburg here, except that I don't think Facebook (or any other privately held company) should be the one to do it. An initiative to bring the Internet to people who cannot afford it or are so remote they are out-of-touch with modern economies should be done by the public sector and/or charities.

Besides, I fail to see how this sort of thing would even be technically feasible. If you can provide some connection to the Internet, you can provide connections to all of the Internet, yes?

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#144

Post by gtirloni »

awalGarg wrote: post #140

I really find it very hard to believe that a company like Facebook with (probably) so many intelligent people on-board will launch such a project without considering the serious downsides and the available better ideas (like the ones mentioned below in comments about free capped internet) etc. I don't want to, but the more I think about it, the more it seems that they just want their own profit with this.

This shouldn't be, but it's indeed business as usual. They have their profitability/success to worry about, especially since they have trouble generating enough profits to justify their share price. They dream of AOL times, if only with some coolness factor to offset their consciences.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#145

Post by vacri »

hsod wrote: post #77

I'm all for net neutrality, but I wonder how the currently unconnected people who have a chance at free connectivity feel about this. My guess-- limited Internet access is preferable to no Internet access and ideological purity.

It's not "free connectivity" and shouldn't be discussed as such. It's "free access to a bundle of sites", which isn't the same thing - basically it's a monopoly doing a loss-leader program.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#146

Post by carapace »

fwn wrote: post #137
hrehhf wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except providing free access to Facebook is not "free internet." It is just free Facebook (and whatever related services). It is not truly "the internet" if it is restricted to Facebook (and associated services).

Better no internet than facebook? Sounds cynic.

Better just internet.

It's like McDonald's building "free" roads that you can use to reach McDonald's, but if you want to go anywhere else you have to pay tolls. It is unbelievably self-serving and for Zuckerburg to dissemble on that point is wildly disingenuous.

"Well, at least they can reach McDonald's" is not a good argument against just building roads and letting people drive wherever.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#147

Post by madeofpalk »

girvo wrote: post #136
Mahn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://i.imgur.com/PAwf6e3.png "Some connectivity is better than no connectivity, hence the violation of NN is justified" Does he really not see the enormous liability that a precedent like this can create?

The precedent already exists, at least here in Australia. Luckily it hasn't caused too many problems thus far, but whether that is merely an outlier remains to be seen.

To clarify for the global audience: (most) broadband in Australia is metered, so back when ADSL started getting big, ISP's would offset 14GB bandwidth cap with 'free zone' content - data which is unmetered. This still continues today, the most recent competitive offering is unmetered Netflix - http://www.optus.com.au/netflix

Which, the latest news is that Netflix regrets signing these deals in the first place http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/04/netflix-regrets-signing-un...

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#148

Post by Steko »

aravindet wrote: post #7

Facebook's internet.org plan to be somewhat hypocritical, given their (correct) stand in favor of net neutrality in the US. internet.org isn't about the internet at all - it's more a proprietary network similar to Compuserve or AOL. It's the same brand of philanthropy that Microsoft practices when it offers discounted Windows and Office to schools.

What is the difference between this service and the free busses at the airport that only take you to a certain hotel or car rental offices or say cheap chartered air flights sponsored by a casino and of course packaged with the casino stay? I consider myself 100% pro-NN but I'm having a hard time resolving these analogies.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#149

Post by chubs »

What if Mark Z framed it as 'free facebook + some educational site access' instead of 'free internet', then he could sidestep all these complaints easily?

"The perfect (NN) is the enemy of the good (free fb+wiki)".

I imagine farmers could improve their lives by sharing information on regional facebook groups. Best of luck with it Mark, although i know you'll likely never read this :)

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#150

Post by dhruvbird »

exacube wrote: post #91

Can someone give me a good argument as to why no internet is better than free limited internet with facebook + google search + wikipedia? If Facebook will provide free limited internet (and as always, you can pay regularly to get full internet access) for a lot of basic service, it only seems reasonable they will package their facebook and messenger apps as well. On the whole, do you think internet.org is a bad, nega…

FYI google isn't on that list: http://tech.firstpost.com/news-analysis/facebook-and-relianc...
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