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Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

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Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#121

Post by olegbl »

gnufied wrote: post #114
lukevdp wrote: post #108

Internet.org is offering a free service to people who would otherwise have no access to the Internet. Net neutrality on a free service in a developing country is an entirely different issue than net neutrality in developed countries with high Internet access rates. I see similarities between this and GMO in developing countries, where rich, well fed people in developed countries oppose gmo in countries that can't fee…

If internet.org was really about providing internet access to people who otherwise can't access it, what is stopping Facebook from making it open? In current form lets say internet.org allows access to 100+ websites. I assume speed will be slow anyways. So make it open. Speed and data cap will be a deterrent for people wanting to abuse the platform (and things like torrent etc can be blocked anyways) But I guess that…

I believe the price is stopping it. Getting a telco to give you massively reduced rates on a few domains is drastically different than paying for internet access for everybody. Also, please correct me if I am mistaken, but I.org doesn't prevent you actually paying for full internet access?

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#122

Post by kamaal »

jacquesm wrote: post #104
exacube wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google search is on internet.org, so is Wikipedia.

What point is there to search without anywhere to go to from your searches other than the sites of those that join the club?

I'm not sure. But eventually they would rank sites from internet.org higher in their search results?

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#123

Post by hrehhf »

napperjabber wrote: post #112
Mahn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://i.imgur.com/PAwf6e3.png "Some connectivity is better than no connectivity, hence the violation of NN is justified" Does he really not see the enormous liability that a precedent like this can create?

There is a bigger picture you're not aware of that is in play here. Zuckerberg is providing free internet to millions.

Except providing free access to Facebook is not "free internet." It is just free Facebook (and whatever related services). It is not truly "the internet" if it is restricted to Facebook (and associated services).

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#125

Post by 21millionbtc »

exacube wrote: post #91

Can someone give me a good argument as to why no internet is better than free limited internet with facebook + google search + wikipedia? If Facebook will provide free limited internet (and as always, you can pay regularly to get full internet access) for a lot of basic service, it only seems reasonable they will package their facebook and messenger apps as well. On the whole, do you think internet.org is a bad, nega…

Internet.org can push an agenda and silence other voices. There is a word for that, and it's propaganda.

No propaganda is better than free limited propaganda (even if it does come packaged with google seach and wikipedia).

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#126

Post by nileshtrivedi »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #81
hsod wrote: post #77

I'm all for net neutrality, but I wonder how the currently unconnected people who have a chance at free connectivity feel about this. My guess-- limited Internet access is preferable to no Internet access and ideological purity.

Yeah, most of those 620K emails (which isn't a lot at Indian scale) by definition, come from people that already have internet access. Its sad, whatever you think about FB, getting more people access to Wikipedia is clearly a good thing (fixing illiteracy would be better, clearly).

Only if you ignore the opportunity cost. If we didn't give free Wikipedia access, we could have given something else for free. Now who should decide what is a better choice? The user of course! This is NOT the case in internet.org. Facebook picks the choices as breadcrumbs for the poor - while there are alternative approaches that can work.

Now, combine this with the fact that picking who gets on internet.org gives the telcos and FB huge leverage, the ulterior motives seem much more likely cause.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#127

Post by npkarnik »

balls187 wrote: post #60
parennoob wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia is a global encyclopedia run by the non-profit Wikimedia foundation, Facebook is an ad-serving, for-profit social network. So I would argue that Wikipedia is the perfect candidate for such a program, and Facebook the worst.

> Wikipedia is the perfect candidate for such a program Except for the high likelihood of having a pop over of Jimmy Wales asking for money show up on all your content.

Which is preferable to the current model of your-and-my-data-and-eyeballs-to-advertisers-as-a-service

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#128

Post by kamaal »

miteshashar wrote: post #22
ishansharma wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original consultation paper also had similar figures. I don't remember correctly but telcos are expected to lose $400 billion from call and SMS decline by 2020. However, they are expected to earn $1.2 trillion from data growth.

Imagine what number would that $1.2 trillion blow up to, if they have it their way of zero-rated apps and differential rating. The TRAI has been clearly unabashedly lobbying on television media for telcos. Isn't the "Telecom Regulatory Authority of India" supposed to act in the benefits of consumer!?

>>Isn't the "Telecom Regulatory Authority of India" supposed to act in the benefits of consumer!?

Ideally yes, but like every other Government institution in India these people are neck deep in corruption[New term: Lobbying].

The key issue is, telcos realize they are being reduced to mere data pipe suppliers and on the long term[May be a few years] their margins will drop like stone falling in a pit. They are being disrupted through software apps[Calls and SMS going through apps like Viber/Skype/Whatsapp]. So while data growth will happen for a while, post that they will be nothing more than data pipe suppliers.

This will just ensure massive flattening of positions in the market. Don't be surprised if BSNL does better than these people in that kind of a world. Because it will be all about infrastructure, and with a unlimited government funding, these people lose out against BSNL if all they will remain is data pipe suppliers.

These people once heralded as champions of free market economy and capitalism now want the government to bail them out with regulations in their favor. This was exactly the cry of all PSU's in the 90's when the government wanted to bring in privatization big time.

This is all about software disruption. These people disrupted BSNL's business, Now there business is being disrupted.

Funny how capitalism works when you are at the receiving end.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#129

Post by chaosmonkey »

exacube wrote: post #91

Can someone give me a good argument as to why no internet is better than free limited internet with facebook + google search + wikipedia? If Facebook will provide free limited internet (and as always, you can pay regularly to get full internet access) for a lot of basic service, it only seems reasonable they will package their facebook and messenger apps as well. On the whole, do you think internet.org is a bad, nega…

They can change the model to give a fixed amount of data for free, instead of picking a bunch of sites, breaking NN. I doubt it will happen.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#130

Post by nileshtrivedi »

olegbl wrote: post #121
gnufied wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If internet.org was really about providing internet access to people who otherwise can't access it, what is stopping Facebook from making it open? In current form lets say internet.org allows access to 100+ websites. I assume speed will be slow anyways. So make it open. Speed and data cap will be a deterrent for people wanting to abuse the platform (and things like torrent etc can be blocked anyways) But I guess that…

I believe the price is stopping it. Getting a telco to give you massively reduced rates on a few domains is drastically different than paying for internet access for everybody. Also, please correct me if I am mistaken, but I.org doesn't prevent you actually paying for full internet access?

They could put data caps. They could support it with ads. Both of which give neutral access to full open internet. If it has to be _few_ domains only, they could let the user chose his preferred domains on the 1st of every month.

But no, they want to sell the poor out to the highest bidders.

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