Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree, and a large reason of that is the open source nature of Android coupled with the fact that Google services don't cost end users anything in most cases. Also, Google's goal in this is to commoditize an adjacent market (mobile hardware) - which is as good for consumers as it is for Google. There was an argument for antitrust when Google was making hardware under Motorola, and my hunch is that Google diveste…
The plan to divest Motorola existed before they closed the deal to buy it.
Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges
91–100 of 101 posts
Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges
#92It's fascinating that their memo dismisses their search position so easily, but focuses on graphs for shopping and travel that shows them in a weak position in those areas, as either the memo is hiding their real arguments (which might not be unreasonable - given its audience and the odds it would leak), or they have not thought this through. What the graphs show is that there are a number of strong competitors in th…
When your search query has commercial intent, Google shows their own shopping-powered results at the top and if you click on one of those products, it goes DIRECTLY to the advertiser. Unless someone clicks on "shop for x product on Google" then it doesn't count in their traffic graph.
The "internal" nature of the memo makes this even more perplexing as the argument seems almost tailored to convince an external audience who may not understand search as well as people within Google do.
I think vidarh makes a great point about Google losing share to apps and vertical specific search engines and many people now go directly to Amazon when they start shopping or directly to Yelp when they want restaurant reviews or Tripadvisor for hotel reviews. Mobile is also changing user behavior (at least on iOS) where I rely a lot more on task-specific apps that I know and trust vs. searching for the details on Google.
Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges
#93EU: "Google, you use your de facto search monopoly attempting to win new monopolies." Google: "But look, we still haven't destroyed all the competition. Why don't you please wait until we do?"
Courts generally hear actual and not hypothetical controversies. If the competition can't yet show harm, there isn't a crime yet.
The relevant EU Commission is not a court, and this isn't an adversarial proceeding between Google and competitors, even for all that Google competitors lobbied the EU for action.
> If the competition can't yet show harm, there isn't a crime yet.
The issue here isn't crime, or something that competition has to show anything, and plenty of crimes do, in fact, exist when harm cannot be shown, anyway.
Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Market share is the differentiator in both scenarios.
So anti-competitive actions/feature/function is only a problem once you reach a certain market share?
Yes, the effect of laws that are about constraining harmful uses of market power depend, among other things, on whether or not an actor has market power in the market at issue.
I'm not sure why this is surprising.
Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
The plan to divest Motorola existed before they closed the deal to buy it.
Yup, it was just a patent grab.
Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Courts generally hear actual and not hypothetical controversies. If the competition can't yet show harm, there isn't a crime yet.
> Courts generally hear actual and not hypothetical controversies. The relevant EU Commission is not a court, and this isn't an adversarial proceeding between Google and competitors, even for all that Google competitors lobbied the EU for action. > If the competition can't yet show harm, there isn't a crime yet. The issue here isn't crime, or something that competition has to show anything, and plenty of crimes do, i…
True, but the principle is a common one. And it is adversarial in that the Commission is prosecuting and Google is defending. This isn't a cooperative investigation.
To the extent that courts do not try hypothetical controversies, they also depend on actual proof and not unproven harm. How do you suppose a company would be found guilty of about-to-violate-antitrust-laws?
Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges
#97Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Courts generally hear actual and not hypothetical controversies. The relevant EU Commission is not a court, and this isn't an adversarial proceeding between Google and competitors, even for all that Google competitors lobbied the EU for action. > If the competition can't yet show harm, there isn't a crime yet. The issue here isn't crime, or something that competition has to show anything, and plenty of crimes do, i…
> The relevant EU Commission is not a court True, but the principle is a common one. And it is adversarial in that the Commission is prosecuting and Google is defending. This isn't a cooperative investigation. To the extent that courts do not try hypothetical controversies, they also depend on actual proof and not unproven harm. How do you suppose a company would be found guilty of about-to-violate-antitrust-laws?
Its actually not as common as you might think; the principle in the US legal system that courts do not address hypothetical situations and issue advisory rulings distinguishes courts in the US system from courts in many non-US systems and many non-court adjudicative bodies (in the US and other systems.)
> And it is adversarial in that the Commission is prosecuting and Google is defending
Its more inquisitorial than adversarial, since there is not a separate prosecuting entity from the adjudicating entity, but the key point was that it wasn't between Google and its competitors, so its competition doesn't need to show anything, contrary to the suggestion made that the competition needs to show harm.
> To the extent that courts do not try hypothetical controversies, they also depend on actual proof and not unproven harm.
Only if the legal standard relevant to the controversy requires concrete harms. A prosecutor doesn't, for instance, have to show any harm when prosecuting attempted murder.
> How do you suppose a company would be found guilty of about-to-violate-antitrust-laws?
Antitrust laws very frequently prohibit conduct undertaken with the intent of monopolizing an industry, though the degree of actual harm is often relevant to the zeal with which antitrust authorities prosecute offenses, and the remedies imposed. Actual harm is often relevant in antitrust analysis, but may not be essential for a violation to occur -- just as the case for many other kinds of violations of law.
Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agree. The european problem: non-entreprenurial culture resulting in startup-prohibiting red tape. Two factors where the US beats Europe. Now combine that advantage the Americans have with the economics of scale of Software: It eats the world. Part of that cake: Pretty much any non-downtown store in Europe.
In some places red tape is a big issue, but I don't think it's the whole story. Starting a small business in Denmark nowadays is extremely streamlined: you can do the entire registration process for the Danish equivalent of an LLC online, and your business is registered within a day or so. It's so easy that it's become common for people to start a company even for small-scale side-business stuff. It's also fairly eas…
The language barrier keeps economics of scale from coming into effect for founders. The abundance of investment capital is an important factor. If that factor increases you become less dependant from factors like "knowing the right people" and "got to having a superb idea".
Building upon your "provincial market" statement: Couldn't it be said, that those country-specific niches will lure the entrepreneurial folk into building dead-end, non-scalable products? :)
Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges
#100It's fascinating that their memo dismisses their search position so easily, but focuses on graphs for shopping and travel that shows them in a weak position in those areas, as either the memo is hiding their real arguments (which might not be unreasonable - given its audience and the odds it would leak), or they have not thought this through. What the graphs show is that there are a number of strong competitors in th…