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Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

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Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#81

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

hsod wrote: post #77

I'm all for net neutrality, but I wonder how the currently unconnected people who have a chance at free connectivity feel about this. My guess-- limited Internet access is preferable to no Internet access and ideological purity.

Yeah, most of those 620K emails (which isn't a lot at Indian scale) by definition, come from people that already have internet access.

Its sad, whatever you think about FB, getting more people access to Wikipedia is clearly a good thing (fixing illiteracy would be better, clearly).

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#82

Post by exacube »

nileshtrivedi wrote: post #48
ravimbalgi wrote: post #32

wondering, when facebook, google and twitter start opting out from internet.org

Google and Twitter are not on internet.org. They are Facebook competitors after all. So much for Facebook's mission of "connecting the world". As ClearTrip said today in its statement: "it is impossible to pretend there is no conflict of interest".

Google search is on internet.org, so is Wikipedia.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#83

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

manish_gill wrote: post #70
belorn wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company wanted to provide aid and give away food, we don't claim that it is creating an unfair market for the local food industry. If Wikipedia want to give away free access to information, suddenly its an unfair advantage in the market of free information?

Because the access to information is extremely constrained. The Internet is much bigger than just wikipedia. There have been studies which showed that people in such situations who used these so called "Free services" didn't even realize they were actually a part of the much bigger Internet, and just considered them standalone. I guess a similar situation would be people in the old days thinking AOL was synonymous wi…

Give the choice between that and no internet (Wikipedia alone could be transformative, conditional on literacy), then yes, I'd probably make that choice.

Its not ideal, but marrying the commercial incentives of telcos to get people paying for data and the gateway drug of free access seems more likely to get more people connected faster than anything else.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#84

Post by denzil_correa »

kamikazi wrote: post #80
denzil_correa wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India has a Competition Commission since 2002. http://www.cci.gov.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=view...

Denzil - we have bodies and committees for every thing but no action takes place. Our CCI is a joke. There is no anti-trust. And less said about our courts & justice system the better. Just a small eg: Satyam chief, Ramalingam Raju, picked up the phone and gave himself in to SEBI (US version of SEC) confessing to financial fraud of INR 4000 crores+ massive job losses, massive losses/harakiri in pension/taxes owed to…

I do understand that most of these bodies are toothless but we do have a CCI. The parent comment mentioned that we don't have one and I thought I would mention the fact that we do. As we speak, the CCI seems to be probing Indian telecoms.

http://telecom.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/industry/cc...

I'm not in favor of zero rating or violations of net neutrality as we know it.

Disclosure : I'm a passive member of the #SaveTheInternet volunteer group (anonymously) too. I really appreciate your efforts and work. I am trying to tell all my colleagues and friends about you guys. Keep going!

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#85

Post by codexon »

r00fus wrote: post #41
aravindet wrote: post #7

Facebook's internet.org plan to be somewhat hypocritical, given their (correct) stand in favor of net neutrality in the US. internet.org isn't about the internet at all - it's more a proprietary network similar to Compuserve or AOL. It's the same brand of philanthropy that Microsoft practices when it offers discounted Windows and Office to schools.

I'd say Facebook's moves here are more sinister than Microsoft's (or Apple's - they do the same thing). In the MS/Apple cases, it's simply about pushing product. In FB's case it's about pulling up the ladder after they've climbed it (balkanized Internet means dominant services like FB stay dominant). After the fwd.us debacle and now this, why should anyone trust Zuck and Facebook in terms of "philanthropy"?

It really isn't surprising for anyone who has read his history that he is not a very moral person.

He made the precursor to Facebook by hacking servers and stealing people's pictures.

Then he lied to the Winklevoss twins that he would build their website for them to stall them for as long as he could so he could release Facebook before them.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#86

Post by denzil_correa »

toxican wrote: post #69
manish_gill wrote: post #28

After limited protest/outrage in communities like /r/india, the news finally hit big when a comedy group AIB decided to make a video explaining what Net Neutrality is: https://youtu.be/mfY1NKrzqi0 and then it finally hit mainstream media. Amid pressure from everywhere, Flipkart finally withdrew from the Airtel Zero deal which would have been a blow to Net Neutrality in India. Of course, next step was Internet.org and…

That video is wonderful. Anyone know of a video that outlines the importance of net neutrality as it pertains to America? This video covers the core idea excellently, but some of the details are very specific to India and their struggle with neutrality. I'd love to have something to show people that think Neutrality is some government overstep. But I feel like they'd be too distracted by the fact that it's not specif…

A website that explains the importance of Net Neutrality, in general.

http://www.theopeninter.net

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#87

Post by denzil_correa »

viggy_prabhu wrote: post #42
ishansharma wrote: post #9

One thing to note is that there's no EFF like organisation and this is mostly done by volunteers [1]. This has also been largest response to any consultation by Indian government having received 600K+ responses through campaign sites[2][3]. Previous highest was 20000 mails in 1999. [1]: Disclaimer: I am associated and helping the group. [2]: http://savetheinternet.in/ People can submit response here. [3]: http://netn…

Having no organization like EFF is something that needs to be fixed. Depending on volunteers for such activity may not always be feasible in long term fights like this. #Sec66A fight took 3 years of dedication by many individuals to reach some conclusion and we can be sure many such fights will come in future. https://wethegoondas.in/ is such issue which still hasnt got enough attraction. Are there efforts in forming…

> Having no organization like EFF is something that needs to be fixed.

I think the closest organization to EFF that India has is the Centre for Internet & Society (CIS). Though, the aim of CIS isn't about digital civil rights like EFF. It is more to study Internet related policy with respect to India. Many times, CIS does take similar stands to that of EFF would given the situation.

http://cis-india.org

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#88

Post by denzil_correa »

belorn wrote: post #49
koolhead17 wrote: post #38

Happy that someone wrote about this. We don`t need Facebook's walled garden. It is surprising to see "Wikipedia" aka champion of free speech part of internet.org.

If a company wanted to provide aid and give away food, we don't claim that it is creating an unfair market for the local food industry. If Wikipedia want to give away free access to information, suddenly its an unfair advantage in the market of free information?

The company owns the food. Wikipedia doesn't own the Internet or the information.

Re: Blow to Internet.org as Indian Internet Companies Begin to Withdraw

#89

Post by denzil_correa »

mkagenius wrote: post #36

Just trying to understand from the first principle: If ISPs doesn't charge for facebook usage, then who _actually_ pays? Someone has to...right? Just curious.

Initially, Amazon pays. Once the users are locked in - ISPs demand more money from Amazon. Of course, Amazon passes on these costs to the consumer in small little $1-2 unnoticeable amount. In the end, the consumer pays Amazon to have special access on the ISPs plus the ISPs to make money from Amazon despite no additional service or product.
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