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Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes?

nytimes.com

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Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes?

#111

Post by dragonwriter »

harryh wrote: post #110
dragonwriter wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People saying "Intuit controls the government" are missing the forest for the trees. No one has says Intuit controls the government. Some people have said Intuit is a special interest that heavily, and successfully, lobbies the government on this one issue, which isn't the same thing as controlling the government. > The IRS doesn't compute your taxes and send you a bill because then you'll forget you ever had the m…

Do you think it's possible that other people might have a different emotional reaction from you if their taxes were withheld/calculated/paid in a less painful manner?

I think intentional infliction of pain on those not convicted of some wrong as a tool for getting those people on whom pain is thereby inflicted to side with one faction's political view on a policy issue is an illegitimate use of government power irrespective of whether or not it might in some cases actually work, and, to the extent that "it works in some cases" is at all relevant to its legitimacy, don't think its actually a positive factor.

So, I don't so much discount the possibility that you raise as dismiss its relevance as a defense of the tactic.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes?

#112

Post by harryh »

dragonwriter wrote: post #111
harryh wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it's possible that other people might have a different emotional reaction from you if their taxes were withheld/calculated/paid in a less painful manner?

I think intentional infliction of pain on those not convicted of some wrong as a tool for getting those people on whom pain is thereby inflicted to side with one faction's political view on a policy issue is an illegitimate use of government power irrespective of whether or not it might in some cases actually work, and, to the extent that "it works in some cases" is at all relevant to its legitimacy, don't think its…

Well, you started off dismissing the tactic as ineffective, but now you've switched to dismissing it as illegitimate.

I might very well agree with your latter assertion. I was just pointing out that you were wrong on the first. Most people aren't as homo economicus as you claim to be.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes?

#113

Post by scott_s »

vonmoltke wrote: post #93
dragonwriter wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They actually do know many of those things--e.g., mortgage interest you get in a 1098 is also filed with the IRS. There is no reason the IRS couldn't pre-prepare returns based on what is already required to be filled with them and precomputed taxes based on them, and still provide you the option of providing additional data. It would be easier for those work no additional info but also for those who needed to put som…

I used to be in an investment partnership and prepared the tax returns for said partnership. We filled the return out and sent it to the IRS in parallel with the members getting their K1 forms. The members actually got the forms before the IRS did. In order for the IRS to know what each member should have on their return the IRS would have to process the business' return first. All those other forms are the same way.…

That the IRS does not have all of the necessary information until after individual tax returns are due is probably because people have to file their own taxes. They don't need those forms until people file their own taxes, because they don't need to verify until after the taxes are filed. That can be changed, if we want the IRS to send people provisional reports that say, "Here is what we think [you owe | we owe you]. If you agree, sign and return. Otherwise, file using the appropriate forms."

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes?

#114

Post by Estragon »

1971genocide wrote: post #6

As an non-american this baffles me. Why is there so much distrust towards the government, police, and military in US ? Isn't the US the oldest democracy ? Society is built on trust - once that doesn't exist then nothing gets done.

At least since WWI, the US Federal Government has a long history of fucking people over in profoundly undemocratic ways.

What's happened to actual Americans is nothing compared to what the Pakistani Government did to East Pakistan in 1971... but it happens over and over again, the global consequences have been huge and terrible, and the wealth and political power of most Americans have been systematically eroded by it. Even small betrayals accumulate to significant mistrust.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes?

#115

Post by a3n »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #49
a3n wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Intuit bribes, er contributes to, Congress.

Intuit is obviously a parasite, but do you have to use their products?

I don't use their products, but gosh darnit they still keep bribing Congress.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes?

#116

Post by rayiner »

rmxt wrote: post #104
rayiner wrote: post #14

People saying "Intuit controls the government" are missing the forest for the trees. The IRS doesn't compute your taxes and send you a bill because then you'll forget you ever had the money in the first place. Lots of people want to make paying taxes painful, so once a year you have to spend hours facing the reality of how much money the government is taking from your paycheck.[1] Intuit just jumped on the bandwagon.…

I think that saying "lots of people want to make paying taxes painful" is quite a bold assumption, and it works all too nicely with the argument that Intuit is merely riding along with public sentiment. The reality is that the bottom 50% of tax filers in the United States have a federal tax rate of about 3%. [1] That isn't too much to get worked up about, and certainly not worth the punishment of needing to deal with…

TurboTax is free for everyone who doesn't make enough money to complain about their federal tax liability.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes?

#117

Post by rayiner »

harryh wrote: post #98
rayiner wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax code does not allow you to deduct cost of living expenses, as a general principle. So someone making $200k in Iowa has more disposable income than someone making $200k in NYC, but the Fed. Gov. taxes them the same. To me, it follows that the tax code shouldn't impose an extra burden because of an inference about your living expenses made from your marital status.

Why does it have to follow in that direction? Maybe because of the marriage penalty it follows that the tax code should take into account cost of living based on your zip code. You've said several times that the tax code is set up to tax increases in wealth.

That's a fair point too, but I'm taking the premise of the current tax code (that cost of living doesn't matter), as a given. I'd be less unhappy with the marriage penalty if the tax code otherwise accounted for cost of living.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes?

#118

Post by fragmede »

rayiner wrote: post #116
rmxt wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that saying "lots of people want to make paying taxes painful" is quite a bold assumption, and it works all too nicely with the argument that Intuit is merely riding along with public sentiment. The reality is that the bottom 50% of tax filers in the United States have a federal tax rate of about 3%. [1] That isn't too much to get worked up about, and certainly not worth the punishment of needing to deal with…

TurboTax is free for everyone who doesn't make enough money to complain about their federal tax liability.

Fortunately, they charge for doing your state taxes, which applies to most.

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes?

#119

Post by rmxt »

rayiner wrote: post #116
rmxt wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that saying "lots of people want to make paying taxes painful" is quite a bold assumption, and it works all too nicely with the argument that Intuit is merely riding along with public sentiment. The reality is that the bottom 50% of tax filers in the United States have a federal tax rate of about 3%. [1] That isn't too much to get worked up about, and certainly not worth the punishment of needing to deal with…

TurboTax is free for everyone who doesn't make enough money to complain about their federal tax liability.

That still doesn't respond to the issue regarding why it is Intuit's TurboTax, and not a free solution provided by the government. I mean free, both in terms of cost to the end user, and cost to the government to implement. (I would imagine that long-term, it would even have negative cost to the government.)

Re: Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes?

#120

Post by harryh »

rmxt wrote: post #119
rayiner wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TurboTax is free for everyone who doesn't make enough money to complain about their federal tax liability.

That still doesn't respond to the issue regarding why it is Intuit's TurboTax, and not a free solution provided by the government. I mean free, both in terms of cost to the end user, and cost to the government to implement. (I would imagine that long-term, it would even have negative cost to the government.)

Because the US government isn't capable of building software at this level of complexity.
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