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Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO

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Re: Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO

#61

Post by mtrimpe »

aikah wrote: post #26
freejack wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware that they are going through an overhaul of their customer service systems, process and probably the people. Its tough to grow as fast as they are, especially in this area. It is exceptionally hard to find great people, maintain culture and values while still providing great support. I'm not making excuses for them, except to say that I am certain they are aware of the issues they have had had in this area a…

> I'm not making excuses for them Yes you are. If the OP story is true, you just don't yell at your customer. It doesn't make me want to try Shopify if they really use these kind of practices. Only shady pornsites do that stuff.

Have you ever actually worked as a customer service agent? Getting low-paid employees to consistently be courteous to angry customers is actually really hard to get right.

You probably aren't; but lots of customers are assholes. Lots of people become utilitarians when they're dealing with customer support: when they want an outcome all means to that end become justified. I can't tell you how many insults I've had hurled at me during my few years as a support rep.

And as far as this customer is concerned; my guess is that he never got the chance to speak to the 'head of customer support.' He got pissed off at one employee; asked for the supervisor and was transferred to the support rep sitting next to him.

That shit happens all the time; heck I've been the 'supervisor' several times and had it work. Call it a 'social hack' support reps often use.

Now the guy should never have yelled and the VP should've followed up on his promise but downvoting someone who politely advocates cutting Spotify some slack based on a single report isn't fair either.

/ex-customer-support-rep-rant

Re: Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO

#62

Post by jackzombie »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #38

Who is their main competition? In this the online store and retail POS space I'm aware there are other operators, but Shopify is the only one I can name. Square I guess in the POS space?

I believe Vend just launched their online POS yesterday to compete more directly with Shopify. Previously, they were doing well with bricks and mortar stores.

Re: Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO

#63

Post by mtrimpe »

anotherview wrote: post #21
freejack wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware that they are going through an overhaul of their customer service systems, process and probably the people. Its tough to grow as fast as they are, especially in this area. It is exceptionally hard to find great people, maintain culture and values while still providing great support. I'm not making excuses for them, except to say that I am certain they are aware of the issues they have had had in this area a…

I'm simply sharing my experience, which involved their head of customer service yelling at me, and their vp of revenue flat out lying to me. If I'm truly an outlier, I'd welcome outreach from them (in the form of the refund they promised me long ago). But I don't expect it. Running a startup is crazy hard... but establishing cultural norms like 'don't yell at customers' and 'don't lie to customers' isn't hard. That's…

Were you 'transferred' to the head (or even VP)? Transferring to a colleague pretending to be a supervisor is a common hack support reps use.

If that was the case the chances are this 'cultural norm' might've been limited to two neighbouring support reps going off book.

Re: Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO

#64

Post by davefp »

oimaz wrote: post #35

As a developer, does it make sense to build shopify apps? Curious to hear about shopify apps and its ecosystem

I have a Shopify app that makes ~$400/month gross revenue. Do your research first to make sure that you're filling the right niche, and you can definitely do alright.

Re: Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO

#65

Post by [deleted] »

mtrimpe wrote: post #61
aikah wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not making excuses for them Yes you are. If the OP story is true, you just don't yell at your customer. It doesn't make me want to try Shopify if they really use these kind of practices. Only shady pornsites do that stuff.

Have you ever actually worked as a customer service agent? Getting low-paid employees to consistently be courteous to angry customers is actually really hard to get right. You probably aren't; but lots of customers are assholes. Lots of people become utilitarians when they're dealing with customer support: when they want an outcome all means to that end become justified. I can't tell you how many insults I've had hur…

[deleted]

Re: Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO

#66

Post by anotherview »

mtrimpe wrote: post #63
anotherview wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm simply sharing my experience, which involved their head of customer service yelling at me, and their vp of revenue flat out lying to me. If I'm truly an outlier, I'd welcome outreach from them (in the form of the refund they promised me long ago). But I don't expect it. Running a startup is crazy hard... but establishing cultural norms like 'don't yell at customers' and 'don't lie to customers' isn't hard. That's…

Were you 'transferred' to the head (or even VP)? Transferring to a colleague pretending to be a supervisor is a common hack support reps use. If that was the case the chances are this 'cultural norm' might've been limited to two neighbouring support reps going off book.

This wasn't a transfer game. There were bidirectional emails and phone calls. (e.g. vp of revenue calling me in response to an email sent directly to his email.)

The whole situation made me wonder how much revenue would Shopify lose if they stopped charging expired credit cards. It must be material if they're willing to engage in a billing practice that essentially no upstanding SaaS company engages in. Or at least it must've been material at the time.

Re: Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO

#67

Post by guiomie »

Glad to see a Canadian tech company going public, but has an investor, I'm not thrilled by the following:

"Its total revenues have doubled from $23.7 million in 2012, to $50.3 million in 2013 and to $105 million in 2014. However, it experienced net losses each year, losing $22.3 million in 2014"

I looked in the F-1 form and saw:

"We had net losses of $1.2 million in 2012, $4.8 million in 2013, $22.3 million in 2014"

The losses quadrupled in 2012-2013, while revenue doubled, and increased almost fivefold in 2013-2014, while revenues only doubled.

Re: Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO

#68

Post by Loque »

A friend of mine pointed out: 68% growth in # of merchants using the service last year, yet losses doubled. Could this mean their VCs actually want some money back?

Aside: I have used Shopify to develop e-commerce sites and its lack of local development frustrated me a huge amount. Saying that, I also appreciate what they are trying to do and have a lot of respect for them as a company.

Re: Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO

#69

Post by anotherview »

shostack wrote: post #52
anotherview wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a different experience. I played with Shopify, and canceled my account. They kept charging me for years. I eventually noticed, and asked for a refund on the completely empty, completely unused account which was being charged to an expired and canceled card (something I didn't even know was possible until this incident). Support said no, and offered a discount if I wanted to use Shopify in the future. I said I'd…

Did you end up filing a chargeback?

I don't believe so. I think I found out that chargebacks can only go back 60 or 90 days, and I also found out that (shockingly) it's not illegal to charge an expired and cancelled credit card on a recurring basis, and I decided to devote my energy to something more useful.

Re: Shopify to raise $100M in Toronto, New York IPO

#70

Post by anotherview »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #38

Who is their main competition? In this the online store and retail POS space I'm aware there are other operators, but Shopify is the only one I can name. Square I guess in the POS space?

SquareSpace, Etsy, BigCartel, BigCommerce, Magento, Volusion, Goodsie, and many others. Heck, you can even run an online store from GoDaddy.
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