Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges • Hacker News Board

Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges

#21

Post by fromtheoutside » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 11:15 AM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #6

It's fascinating that their memo dismisses their search position so easily, but focuses on graphs for shopping and travel that shows them in a weak position in those areas, as either the memo is hiding their real arguments (which might not be unreasonable - given its audience and the odds it would leak), or they have not thought this through. What the graphs show is that there are a number of strong competitors in th…

> It's fascinating that their memo dismisses their search position so easily, but focuses on graphs for shopping and travel that shows ...

The (current) EU charges only target Google Shopping and the placement of Googles own products in relation to competitors.

Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges

#22

Post by crdoconnor » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 11:26 AM UTC

blfr wrote: post #7

Those graphs are so sad. It's all American companies competing among themselves: Twitter, Bing, DuckDuckGo... Even on our home turf, even with natural advantage (not so much in search but definitely in shopping), local competition is at the bottom, far behind Amazon and Ebay. And this doesn't seem to worry anyone here. We continue to tack on more regulation, tax rules detrimental to small businesses in their complexi…

>tax rules detrimental to small businesses

It's quite a common schtick among big businesses (including the aforementioned monopolists) to blame the lack of small business competition on tax rules.

The tax rules they refer to actually do nothing to small businesses, but they are usually detrimental to their own bottom line.

This is how Google/Microsoft/Amazon ended up reaping such huge profits and paying such pathetically low taxes. It didn't happen by accident, and it also didn't help any small businesses along the way. Quite the opposite.

Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges

#23

Post by grey-area » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 11:26 AM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #20

thirdsun wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market share is the differentiator in both scenarios.

So anti-competitive actions/feature/function is only a problem once you reach a certain market share?

yep.

Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges

#24

Post by peterfirefly » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 11:26 AM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #20

thirdsun wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market share is the differentiator in both scenarios.

So anti-competitive actions/feature/function is only a problem once you reach a certain market share?

Yes, in many jurisdictions that is the case.

Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges

#25

Post by makeitsuckless » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 11:33 AM UTC

Seems to me that Google suffers from the same cognitive dissonance that plagued Microsoft in the past: it still sees itself as the small innovative start-up, when in fact it has become the 800 pound gorilla that crushes the competition.

Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges

#26

Post by Sven7 » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 11:36 AM UTC

Increased competition? Seriously Google. The current count of European Search Engines in your own memo is 0.

Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges

#27

Post by makeitsuckless » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 11:37 AM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #15

Why is Apple not also in trouble? The way safari runs on iOS compared to other browser is very similar to how Microsoft shipped explorer with windows. Except windows did not prevent other browser from using the full API and your app didn't have to go through a approval process.

Didn't we already do this dance back in the Microsoft anti-trust days? Market share makes all the difference.

That's the whole point of these rules, any company can do whatever they want on their own platform except when the become so dominant competition no longer happens.

Please stop comparing actions when it's context that matters here.

Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges

#28

Post by thescrewdriver » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 11:40 AM UTC

IBM wrote: post #10

pja wrote: post #9

It ought to have been transparently obvious to Google execs from when Google became utterly dominant in the web search space that the risk of anti-trust violations was very high and if they wanted to avoid being censured they needed to consistently take the high road & avoid using that dominance to force entry into other fields at the expense of competitors. It has always looked to me that Google was consistently ste…

More than the fines is the ability to impose changes on their business practices. Imagine if Google could no longer require OEMs to bundle various Google products in order to get the Play store.

It's pretty crazy that they currently have the power/leverage to demand that of OEMs.

Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges

#29

Post by 7952 » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 11:44 AM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #6

It's fascinating that their memo dismisses their search position so easily, but focuses on graphs for shopping and travel that shows them in a weak position in those areas, as either the memo is hiding their real arguments (which might not be unreasonable - given its audience and the odds it would leak), or they have not thought this through. What the graphs show is that there are a number of strong competitors in th…

Google are not actually selling things, merely offering search of retailers (who pay for the priveledge). From the consumers point of you I think this is distinctly different from what Amazon do. On the Google I see they only push Google Shopping through ads and don't appear to alter normal search results. I suppose that they could have an advantage in terms of ads over competitors, but that is the benefit they are selling to retailers so it isn't that different to any other ads. IMHO it actually increases competition by surfacing alternatives to Amazon that would otherwise be the first result.

Re: Google’s Internal Response to Imminent E.U. Charges

#30

Post by davidw » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 11:47 AM UTC

crdoconnor wrote: post #22

blfr wrote: post #7

Those graphs are so sad. It's all American companies competing among themselves: Twitter, Bing, DuckDuckGo... Even on our home turf, even with natural advantage (not so much in search but definitely in shopping), local competition is at the bottom, far behind Amazon and Ebay. And this doesn't seem to worry anyone here. We continue to tack on more regulation, tax rules detrimental to small businesses in their complexi…

>tax rules detrimental to small businesses It's quite a common schtick among big businesses ( including the aforementioned monopolists) to blame the lack of small business competition on tax rules. The tax rules they refer to actually do nothing to small businesses, but they are usually detrimental to their own bottom line. This is how Google/Microsoft/Amazon ended up reaping such huge profits and paying such patheti…

As an American living in Italy, there really are more taxes and "death by a thousand cut" fees and rules here than in the US, from what I've seen.

Everyone treats their Fords and Fiats well, but for smaller companies, it's all the red tape and small stuff that's most annoying, not even the overall tax level.