Do engineers really make better spouses? • Hacker News Board

Re: Do engineers really make better spouses?

#121

Post by ck425 » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 4:44 PM UTC

rjzzleep wrote: post #83

dudifordMann wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, don't keep pushing that stereotype on us. Software engineering, much like other disciplines, have people from all backgrounds and capabilities. I hate the idea that the persistence of these beliefs can effect the industry further, possibly leading to some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy where good communication skills are not expected. Routinely software engineers need to give presentations to customers, have t…

I'm sure you enjoy dilbert a lot. But more seriously, software engineers are merely the loudest of all engineering professions. Hardly the end-all and be-all. A significant portion of software engineers, never even had a scientific education(programming doesn't have to be scientific, though it can be, and almost every programmer calls himself a software engineer). > This type of thinking is, I believe, the same menta…

> people don't generally know what professions are like until they actually start working in them.

Which is exactly why stereotypes are so harmful because it puts people off ever trying and learning differently. Your story just reinforced the point, people often make judgements about careers based on stereotypes not actual data so it's detrimental to our industry to encourage these stereotypes.

Re: Do engineers really make better spouses?

#122

Post by apta » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 5:15 PM UTC

rjzzleep wrote: post #83

dudifordMann wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, don't keep pushing that stereotype on us. Software engineering, much like other disciplines, have people from all backgrounds and capabilities. I hate the idea that the persistence of these beliefs can effect the industry further, possibly leading to some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy where good communication skills are not expected. Routinely software engineers need to give presentations to customers, have t…

I'm sure you enjoy dilbert a lot. But more seriously, software engineers are merely the loudest of all engineering professions. Hardly the end-all and be-all. A significant portion of software engineers, never even had a scientific education(programming doesn't have to be scientific, though it can be, and almost every programmer calls himself a software engineer). > This type of thinking is, I believe, the same menta…

> A significant portion of software engineers, never even had a scientific education(programming doesn't have to be scientific, though it can be...

Such people can't be called engineers then. I find it amusing when I see titles such as "JavaScript engineer" or "HTML engineer", etc.

> ...and almost every programmer calls himself a software engineer

This seems to be a culture in the USA mainly. From what I have seen, Canada is much more strict about having the proper credentials to be able to call yourself an engineer.

Re: Do engineers really make better spouses?

#123

Post by balabaster » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 5:25 PM UTC

dcherman wrote: post #115

Fuxy wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a credit card for this exact reason. I get at least 5 invitations by mail every week but i don't really need it. Spend the money you have not the money you can get.

If you treat a credit card the same as cash, then there is literally no difference in how much you should be spending, but you need the discipline to actually do that. There are a number of benefits to using credit cards that cash doesn't have: 1. Build a credit score 2. Fraud protection 3. Related to 2, but if I lose my card it's not a huge deal, cancel it and get a new one. If I lose 300$ cash, it's just gone. 4. R…

There's a built in assumption here that you need credit... if you don't need credit then all this is moot. Everyone's so keen to be part of the system that they never stop to wonder what they're chasing... there are justifications and rationalizing and whatever else it takes to belong. None of it's necessary. The 1-3% cash back and the air miles and the fraud protection and all these other goodies they promise you are bribery to use their card so that they can get the scale they need to make the system profitable for them. They sell your information, aggregate it to marketing companies, it's a means to track your every purchase electronically etc. etc.

If you'd paid cash you could have got a better deal from suppliers by negotiating cash discounts and nobody would be aggregating your information or tracking your purchases to target advertising to try to further their way into your wallet. If you'd paid the $10K up front, which you had the cash to do so, what did you do with that $10K? Did it just sit in your bank giving you an illusion of a bank balance or did you invest it to make some return to justify putting it on credit and putting off until tomorrow what you could have paid for today? You purchased this kitchen effectively putting a lien on that money, it's no longer yours... but having it in your account still gives you the illusion that it is. It only takes something unexpected happening and that money that's not yours [which is still in your account] is easy to dip into for an emergency with the expectation that you'll pay back into it another day when you can afford that - a day that never comes, until that kitchen you've been enjoying for the last 18 months and now can't live without needs paying for...

It's ridiculously easy to get sucked into the trap of cycling one debt after another and then you're stuck with your only options being: Sell everything you own to pay it off, claim bankruptcy and start again from scratch or strive for a higher paying job, putting yourself under extra stress... and for what? The ability to raise your debt load. It's not really much surprise, the entire capitalist economy is built on debt, without it, there would be no economy. The U.S. currency is loaned (at interest) by the Fed to the U.S. Government, so debt goes right to the very foundation of the entire economy. So it's an ever perpetuating cycle.

There are rationalizations on both sides of the fence. For the record, I'm not dead against credit, I'm just saying that for every rationalization that can be offered to use credit, there are equally many reasons to avoid it.

Re: Do engineers really make better spouses?

#124

Post by dudifordMann » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 5:58 PM UTC

rjzzleep wrote: post #83

dudifordMann wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, don't keep pushing that stereotype on us. Software engineering, much like other disciplines, have people from all backgrounds and capabilities. I hate the idea that the persistence of these beliefs can effect the industry further, possibly leading to some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy where good communication skills are not expected. Routinely software engineers need to give presentations to customers, have t…

I'm sure you enjoy dilbert a lot. But more seriously, software engineers are merely the loudest of all engineering professions. Hardly the end-all and be-all. A significant portion of software engineers, never even had a scientific education(programming doesn't have to be scientific, though it can be, and almost every programmer calls himself a software engineer). > This type of thinking is, I believe, the same menta…

I'm having the hardest time following the flow of your statements, which are riddled with assumptions that I, at their base, don't agree with.

> A significant portion of software engineers, never even had a scientific education

I'm not sure that I follow. What is it that you consider a "scientific education"? where do you get your significant figure from?

>... no offence, you just pulled that out of your ass.

I was not stating any statistical evidence, just a belief I have that if you cast a particular field in a negative light, claiming that a majority of people in those fields are poor communicators, that anyone might avoid that field, which I would imagine includes women, so perhaps I should have abstracted away a bit.

> i personally had to witness the culture clash...

I don't discount that cultural or familial background does not play a role in where a person ends up in his or her career, nor did I claim that work/study environment cannot play a factor. But stereotypes, both positive and negative, can have an impact on anyone's perspective on any field.

As to your Dilbert comment, I'm assuming you're trying to be funny or use some sort of straw-man to discredit my statement? Good job, you did it.

Re: Do engineers really make better spouses?

#125

Post by ad-hominem » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 6:52 PM UTC

jbattle wrote: post #64

onion2k wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communication in a relationship is eminently hackable. On the first month 'anniversary' of seeing my girlfriend I bought her a book (one she'd mentioned wanting to read) and wrote a couple of lines in the front about how well it was going. From there on we've bought each other a book every month and written a short note in the front. We've been seeing each other for almost three years without any 'communication probl…

To give totally unsolicited advice - 3 years is easy - it doesn't get really hard for another 5 years. Don't stress about it but also don't take it for granted that your communication will always be as great as it is now (without ongoing effort).

In what world do you live where a meaningful 3 year relationship is easy? Thanks for belittling essentially all unmarried people plus some married couples.

Re: Do engineers really make better spouses?

#126

Post by dcherman » Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 7:34 PM UTC

balabaster wrote: post #123

dcherman wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you treat a credit card the same as cash, then there is literally no difference in how much you should be spending, but you need the discipline to actually do that. There are a number of benefits to using credit cards that cash doesn't have: 1. Build a credit score 2. Fraud protection 3. Related to 2, but if I lose my card it's not a huge deal, cancel it and get a new one. If I lose 300$ cash, it's just gone. 4. R…

There's a built in assumption here that you need credit... if you don't need credit then all this is moot. Everyone's so keen to be part of the system that they never stop to wonder what they're chasing... there are justifications and rationalizing and whatever else it takes to belong. None of it's necessary. The 1-3% cash back and the air miles and the fraud protection and all these other goodies they promise you ar…

You do need credit though unless you never intend on financing a car or purchasing a house with a mortgage.

While it may be entirely feasible to get along your entire life without financing a car by either purchasing used cars or inexpensive new ones, for 99% of people ( including myself ), it's extraordinarily difficult to purchase a home in a reasonable amount of time ( 10-15+ years saving required for a barebones house most likely ).

You could argue that prices are like this due to the easy availability of credit ( see 2008 or the problems with student loans/college prices ), but that doesn't change the reality that some things are extremely expensive and for nearly all people will require some type of loan. At that point, not having a good credit score will cost you dearly in much higher interest rates.

As for my kitchen, the reason you gave it exactly the reason that I did it. Although I did net an additional 100$ or so in interest over the course of the year as well due to it being in my savings account ( yay!...kinda? ), the primary reason was in the event of an emergency. Any emergency that would require an additional $10,000 is likely to be medical, family, or loss of job related. Since I have insurance, that means that the most likely scenario is family or job related; in either instance, the availability of cash to help a member of my family out or pay my mortgage for 6 months would be more important to me than the costs associated with financing that card for a period of time. In addition, I would still be able to pay the card off by selling a bit of stock, however I wanted the additional liquidity by having cash on hand. I don't make decisions like that lightly; all of those scenarios were considered before I decided to go the 0% card route.

Re: Do engineers really make better spouses?

#127

Post by golergka » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 6:56 AM UTC

apta wrote: post #122

rjzzleep wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you enjoy dilbert a lot. But more seriously, software engineers are merely the loudest of all engineering professions. Hardly the end-all and be-all. A significant portion of software engineers, never even had a scientific education(programming doesn't have to be scientific, though it can be, and almost every programmer calls himself a software engineer). > This type of thinking is, I believe, the same menta…

> A significant portion of software engineers, never even had a scientific education(programming doesn't have to be scientific, though it can be... Such people can't be called engineers then. I find it amusing when I see titles such as "JavaScript engineer" or "HTML engineer", etc. > ...and almost every programmer calls himself a software engineer This seems to be a culture in the USA mainly. From what I have seen, C…

> I find it amusing when I see titles such as "JavaScript engineer" or "HTML engineer", etc.

It is amusing indeed, but for a different reason — because "iron engineer" or "rubber engineer" (in case of hardware engineers) would be just as amusing.

The lack of formal scientific education doesn't mean that engineer in question doesn't have the exact same amount of knowledge — it merely means that he chose other ways to acquire it.

Re: Do engineers really make better spouses?

#128

Post by balabaster » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 1:17 PM UTC

dcherman wrote: post #126

balabaster wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a built in assumption here that you need credit... if you don't need credit then all this is moot. Everyone's so keen to be part of the system that they never stop to wonder what they're chasing... there are justifications and rationalizing and whatever else it takes to belong. None of it's necessary. The 1-3% cash back and the air miles and the fraud protection and all these other goodies they promise you ar…

You do need credit though unless you never intend on financing a car or purchasing a house with a mortgage. While it may be entirely feasible to get along your entire life without financing a car by either purchasing used cars or inexpensive new ones, for 99% of people ( including myself ), it's extraordinarily difficult to purchase a home in a reasonable amount of time ( 10-15+ years saving required for a barebones…

Having financed my last 6 cars - all bar one of them from new and having made a vehicle payment every month of my adult life, I've learned that financing new vehicles is a fools errand. What you get in perceived reliability (and it frequently is only perceived), you lose in depreciation the minute it gets driven off the lot. When I've paid the final payment on my vehicle this month, I will continue paying that same amount into an account until this vehicle dies or has a repair bill beyond what it would cost me to replace it. I predict (hopefully accurately) that if I continue to look after it well, I should have plenty enough money in the bank to purchase my next (nearly-new-but-used-and-still-has-warranty) vehicle outright with someone else having taken the depreciation hit instead of me. Admittedly, I got to where I did now with credit, so my picture isn't black and white. I could have continued to use my bike for a few years, putting aside the money for a vehicle until I had enough to pay outright, I didn't - but that was the impatience of youth. If I'd had no/bad credit at the time, I'm sure being who I am, I would have found another way.

As for a house, it definitely doesn't take 10-15 years if you think outside the box cultured by our society.

Re: Do engineers really make better spouses?

#129

Post by dpeck » Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 9:21 PM UTC

balabaster wrote: post #101

dpeck wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| Everyone's an engineer in one way or another Great, so we expand the word to mean anything, lets just toss the word out because its meaningless at that point.

lol - may as well. It's largely a meaningless word anyway ;) Engineering is just the art of manipulating pieces of a puzzle [whether that be things or people] to serve a solution to a problem. What does that leave unaccounted for?

And everyone is a hacker, a salesman, scientist, clothing model, barista, and archivist too.