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RethinkDB 2.0 is now production ready

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Re: RethinkDB 2.0 is now production ready

#131

Post by e12e »

coffeemug wrote: post #62
Shamanmuni wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the AGPL uses strong copyleft, so any future derivative work must be released under the same terms (and the same license or later versions if I'm not mistaken). The only possibility is to start a closed source clone that doesn't use any of the original code from zero. The cases in which the community forks a project licensed with a copyleft license (like LibreOffice) has to do with insatisfaction with the directi…

> No, the AGPL uses strong copyleft, so any future derivative work must be released under the same terms (and the same license or later versions if I'm not mistaken). The only possibility is to start a closed source clone that doesn't use any of the original code from zero. Slava @ RethinkDB here. This has one exception -- the copyright owner can choose to start releasing enhancements as closed source, and they would…

Just a note: the comparison with foundation db isn't all that apt -- Sun/Solaris+ZFS/Oracle is probably a more apt comparison to what could hypothetically change if RethinkDB is bought up (by, say, Oracle..).

I'm not suggesting that is likely, but that it's more what would/could happen -- there is already a real, working, full product that wouldn't disappear over night. And a commercial fork would likely be pretty painful for everyone, just as closed Solaris is looking less and less interesting as both many of the minds behind the great parts of Solaris work on Open Solaris in one form or another, and as fewer community resources go into closed Solaris.

I see the AGPL (as opposed to some ad-hoc license) as another benefit for RethinkDB. Many might not like the copyleft-part -- but at least it is a known and well-documented quantity -- no surprises likely to come from/with forking and/or when trying to merge with other Free software (be that BSD or GPL or...).

Re: RethinkDB 2.0 is now production ready

#132

Post by e12e »

benatkin wrote: post #94
danielmewes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Daniel @ RethinkDB here. As you mention, RethinkDB is fully open source so RethinkDB is always going to remain freely available.

I don't consider the AGPL to be fully open source . To me, it isn't in the spirit of open source. (BTW the Open Source Institute was unable to get a trademark for "open source" so it doesn't matter that they approved it.)

I hesitate to comment (we've had a few copyleft vs BSD etc-discussions...) -- still, I think the best way to look at the AGPL is as the GPL patched to work around the move from software distribution to software as a service: the end user no longer gets a copy of the software, and so the GPL doesn't protect the end user any more (which is who the GPL is for, incidentally the end user might also be a developer -- but that is incidental: the first Freedom (Freedom 0) is the freedom to run code. You don't have that freedom with SaaS -- if the service provider goes away, so does your ability to run the software).

Now, one can be in agreement with the idea that the four freedoms are important, especially as we increasingly live in a world where software is not only convenient, but necessary in our daily lives -- but the idea with the AGPL, and why it is needed for server software -- is pretty clear.

Re: RethinkDB 2.0 is now production ready

#133

Post by e12e »

geddski wrote: post #103

I've been using RethinkDB for a while now and I really enjoy working with it. It's a great fit for React and Angular 2 apps with their one-way data flow through the application. Hook up a store or a model to an event source (server-sent events) that streams the RethinkDB changes feed and it's just awesome and simple. Realtime shouldn't be this easy, totally feels like cheating. Love it. I also really like the ability…

How do you deal with user authentication, authorization and data encryption? Do you have a web server/application server or do you just combine static js/html/css resources and RethinkDB?

I'm kind of enamoured with the idea of couchapps -- but I'm still not entirely comfortable with having my db be my web and app server, as well as having it manage passwords etc... as I'm reading up, I'm slowly convincing myself it's possible to both make it work, be easy, support a sane level of TLS, load balance and be secure with proper ACL support... but very few tutorials/books seem to really deal with that to a level that brings me confidence.

Re: RethinkDB 2.0 is now production ready

#134

Post by e12e »

coffeemug wrote: post #29
mping wrote: post #25

Anyone has some numbers on performance? I tried RethinkDB 1.x and the performance wasn't quite there yet, specially bulk import and aggregations.

We'll be publishing a performance report soon (we didn't manage to get it out today). Rough numbers you can expect for 1KB size documents, 25M document database: 40K reads/sec/server, 5K writes/sec/server, roughly linear scalability across nodes. We should be able to get the report out in a couple of days.

Rough numbers indeed - you forgot to define what a "server" is -- dedicated hw 16 core xeon with 4xssd in hw raid0 or a Digital Ocean vps with 512MB ram? ;-)

Re: RethinkDB 2.0 is now production ready

#135

Post by e12e »

andrewflnr wrote: post #105
shockzzz wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a nightmare to scale and has performance quirks that are really unexpected. Many, many companies have had to spend enormous amounts of developer time to migrate off of MongoDB to something else.

That and the unreliable-by-default write settings.

I think mongodb is following a similar path to what MySQL did. Be really good at one thing, market as something else -- and then slowly, slowly catch up to the hype (sort of).

As I understand it mongodb have changed the default settings (probably why someone downvoted you) -- but the fact that it was off by default is still something that is rightfully hard for the team to live down.

And while a lot of people are probably still happily using MySQL -- I personally see little use for it, when PostgreSQL is an option.

I maybe wrong, but I think both mongodb and mysql appeal to the same groups: people that don't know or care about normalization, databases and datastructures -- and really just want image (as in Smalltalk) based development, but has been tricked into using php/javascript etc.

It's kind of crazy that you have two mature (one Free, one free) object databases that have seen some real-world usage -- and neither get any love.

One is zodb, the Z object database, developed for zope/plone -- one of the first web application frameworks -- and a major contributor to python (invented eggs, buildout...). It's ridiculously easy to use outside of zope/plone/pyramid[1] and now has a free replication service[2].

The other one is gemstone glass[3] which works with Smalltalk and have their own ruby runtime, maglev[4].

[1] http://zodborg.readthedocs.org/en/latest/documentation/artic...

[2] http://www.zope.com/products/x1752814276/Zope-Replication-Se...

[3] http://seaside.gemtalksystems.com/

[4] http://maglev.github.io/

Re: RethinkDB 2.0 is now production ready

#137

Post by rspeer »

lobster_johnson wrote: post #130
SamReidHughes wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wrote your query with group and count, with no index, then there would be problems with the performance. RethinkDB generally does not do query optimization, except in specific ways (mostly about distributing where the query is run), unless that's changed very recently. You can write that query so that it executes with appropriate memory usage with a map and reduce operation.

Do you think map/reduce would result in performance near what I get from Postgres?

I haven't used RethinkDB, but I would assume the answer is no. Choosing to use map/reduce is basically a declaration that performance is your lowest priority.

Re: RethinkDB 2.0 is now production ready

#138

Post by Ciantic »

coffeemug wrote: post #82
Ciantic wrote: post #66

I wish they did official TypeScript definition files. I'm a bit wary to rely on huge DB API with community definitions only. There are reasons to write TypeScript definitions for documentation generation too, if not for the code as TS.

There is an official spec here: http://rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/ Not quite TS, but it's well defined and new releases of the spec are carefully managed.

For me the TS is a tool to ensure my code is not using deprecated API. This is a partly reason why Facebook is also pushing typing to JS with Flow.

Edit: And Guido is pushing it to Python with PEP 484: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/

It's inherent problem with dynamic languages, you have to read all new release documents and migrate your code. With typed code I at least can be somewhat sure I'm not using deprecated calls and such just by compiling.

Re: RethinkDB 2.0 is now production ready

#139

Post by jkarneges »

e12e wrote: post #133
geddski wrote: post #103

I've been using RethinkDB for a while now and I really enjoy working with it. It's a great fit for React and Angular 2 apps with their one-way data flow through the application. Hook up a store or a model to an event source (server-sent events) that streams the RethinkDB changes feed and it's just awesome and simple. Realtime shouldn't be this easy, totally feels like cheating. Love it. I also really like the ability…

How do you deal with user authentication, authorization and data encryption? Do you have a web server/application server or do you just combine static js/html/css resources and RethinkDB? I'm kind of enamoured with the idea of couchapps -- but I'm still not entirely comfortable with having my db be my web and app server, as well as having it manage passwords etc... as I'm reading up, I'm slowly convincing myself it's…

By "an event source [...] that streams the RethinkDB changes feed", the parent is implying a separate web service layer that consumes data from RethinkDB and sends it out to clients. RethinkDB is not meant for direct access by clients. More about RethinkDB access here: http://rethinkdb.com/docs/security/ (TL;DR: plaintext shared key or ssh tunnel)

Re: RethinkDB 2.0 is now production ready

#140

Post by nileshtrivedi »

geddski wrote: post #109
nileshtrivedi wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any project on github that works like that?

Not that's open source, but I can do a little write up article and share a sample app that shows how to do it.

Please do. :)
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