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Design is losing its seat at the table

mokriya.quora.com

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Re: Design is losing its seat at the table

#41

Post by ryanSrich »

carrotleads wrote: post #38
ryanSrich wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Design is not how something looks You're right. But it certainly includes how it looks. You can't silo off certain aspects of interaction between products and users. The visual aesthetics of a product are subjectively at the front of the line when it comes to design. Design is a "why not both" profession. You can't have a pretty looking site that doesn't function properly and still have a great product. You also ca…

>> You also can't have a functioning site that looks like shit and still have a great product. craigslist will beg to differ and is an example of why functioning site with shit look is better than great look with bad function the guys at 42 floors figured this out by testing. http://darrennix.com/our-homegrown-ab-testing-framework-at-4...

Success != a great product.

Often times users have no choice but to use the only choice. That's like saying people choose Comcast because it's a great product. No. People choose Comcast because it's the only product.

Craigslist became popular at a time when thoughtful UI design wasn't repeated or regarded as necessary.

Re: Design is losing its seat at the table

#42

Post by ryanSrich »

phkahler wrote: post #36
ryanSrich wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Design is not how something looks You're right. But it certainly includes how it looks. You can't silo off certain aspects of interaction between products and users. The visual aesthetics of a product are subjectively at the front of the line when it comes to design. Design is a "why not both" profession. You can't have a pretty looking site that doesn't function properly and still have a great product. You also ca…

>> Design is not how something looks > You're right. But it certainly includes how it looks. I hate to use this example because it was so hyped at the time but... Pinch-zoom is awesome functionality and has NO look, only function and feel. There is no visible UI, you just grab the image/map with 2 fingers and resize it. It's one of the best UI concepts in ages. The only thing it may not be is discoverable. This is wh…

At this point it's semantics. I feel like we mostly agree. However to me pinch to zoom is incredibly visual. Yes it's gestural but the feedback is visual and therefore does have a look.

Re: Design is losing its seat at the table

#43

Post by angersock »

ryanSrich wrote: post #41
carrotleads wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> You also can't have a functioning site that looks like shit and still have a great product. craigslist will beg to differ and is an example of why functioning site with shit look is better than great look with bad function the guys at 42 floors figured this out by testing. http://darrennix.com/our-homegrown-ab-testing-framework-at-4...

Success != a great product. Often times users have no choice but to use the only choice. That's like saying people choose Comcast because it's a great product. No. People choose Comcast because it's the only product. Craigslist became popular at a time when thoughtful UI design wasn't repeated or regarded as necessary.

You know, I'm not sure I want to take advice about what makes a great product from somebody whose own homepage fails to properly hyperlink to their own projects.

Sure looks like good design though. Pity about the functionality. :P

Re: Design is losing its seat at the table

#44

Post by wwweston »

ryanSrich wrote: post #10
killerdhmo wrote: post #2

Design is not how something looks. It's not pastel colors, and slick animations and cutesy UI. Design is intrinsically tied to function. Design is how you think about and solve a problem. I go back to Dieter Rams' 10 Principles of Good Design often. [0] I've highlighted a few key ones here: Good Design Makes a Product Useful : A product is bought to be used. It has to satisfy certain criteria, not only functional but…

> Design is not how something looks You're right. But it certainly includes how it looks. You can't silo off certain aspects of interaction between products and users. The visual aesthetics of a product are subjectively at the front of the line when it comes to design. Design is a "why not both" profession. You can't have a pretty looking site that doesn't function properly and still have a great product. You also ca…

The phrase "looks like shit" borders on begging the question. If it means anything at all, it's presumably referring to an appearance that's inherently as repellant as, well, shit, and sure, that's tautologically no good.

It's also not clear to me that the appearance of even most bad apps reach repelling depths. My experience is that utility failures are a lot more common than complete aesthetic failures.

Re: Design is losing its seat at the table

#45

Post by carrotleads »

jimmaswell wrote: post #40
carrotleads wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> You also can't have a functioning site that looks like shit and still have a great product. craigslist will beg to differ and is an example of why functioning site with shit look is better than great look with bad function the guys at 42 floors figured this out by testing. http://darrennix.com/our-homegrown-ab-testing-framework-at-4...

I still don't get the "craigslist looks awful" or "craigslist has terrible UI" stances. It is simple and bare, unflashy, things are where you expect them to be on the first or second guess, there are no gotchas, the colors are balanced adequately such that they aren't glaring or distracting, sections of a page are appropriately positioned and proportioned, and even relatives who have to ask me how to put files on a D…

I am perfectly fine with craigslist look and as you said things are where they are supposed to be and do what they suggest they will do.

I know of designers who rail against that look though. I think HN follows most of the same craigslist principles.

Re: Design is losing its seat at the table

#46

Post by carrotleads »

ryanSrich wrote: post #41
carrotleads wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> You also can't have a functioning site that looks like shit and still have a great product. craigslist will beg to differ and is an example of why functioning site with shit look is better than great look with bad function the guys at 42 floors figured this out by testing. http://darrennix.com/our-homegrown-ab-testing-framework-at-4...

Success != a great product. Often times users have no choice but to use the only choice. That's like saying people choose Comcast because it's a great product. No. People choose Comcast because it's the only product. Craigslist became popular at a time when thoughtful UI design wasn't repeated or regarded as necessary.

Why is craigslist still popular when there are better looking sites around?

Why are sites like HN and the one linked earlier following a similar style.

Cause core of design != look which is how the 3 apps mentioned above seemed to be looking at.

Function needs to be the core of design.

Re: Design is losing its seat at the table

#47

Post by ryanSrich »

carrotleads wrote: post #46
ryanSrich wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Success != a great product. Often times users have no choice but to use the only choice. That's like saying people choose Comcast because it's a great product. No. People choose Comcast because it's the only product. Craigslist became popular at a time when thoughtful UI design wasn't repeated or regarded as necessary.

Why is craigslist still popular when there are better looking sites around? Why are sites like HN and the one linked earlier following a similar style. Cause core of design != look which is how the 3 apps mentioned above seemed to be looking at. Function needs to be the core of design.

Because all of those sites are established and have unparalleled content. There are no competitors to those websites.

Re: Design is losing its seat at the table

#48

Post by carrotleads »

ryanSrich wrote: post #47
carrotleads wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is craigslist still popular when there are better looking sites around? Why are sites like HN and the one linked earlier following a similar style. Cause core of design != look which is how the 3 apps mentioned above seemed to be looking at. Function needs to be the core of design.

Because all of those sites are established and have unparalleled content. There are no competitors to those websites.

established sites with good content go out of business day in and day out... that happens when they don't have a good functional design and when better options come along.

If they are the only game in town, then I will put up with bad functional design and if needed crawl on my knees to solve a problem of mine.

I remember years back trawling through multiple expertsexchange pages to solve some coding issues.. Now I don't as better options have come along...

Why is the same not happening with craigslist, cause they do the basic job well.. have a functional designed site which solves peoples problem easily.

Re: Design is losing its seat at the table

#49

Post by lotsofmangos »

"If you gathered some of the world’s best designers and gave them significant organizational support and all the resources they need, is an app which at best matches the functionality of bundled OS features from a few years ago what you’d expect?"

If I read an article by a professional writer, I expect sentences I can parse.

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