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Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#81

Post by ohnomrbill »

kstenerud wrote: post #78
tobiasu wrote: post #30

Why do people suddenly care for others when they had enough of this shitty space rock? You gave no shits the last three decades. Given the rabbit-like pest that we are - why should you? I want to end my life where and whenever it suits me. Hypocrites please stay away.

Because people DO care, but they generally don't show it much. Often it takes a shock like this for them to realize how much they actually do care. It's easy to fall into the thought trap of "nobody cares", followed by "because there's no reason for them to care", to "because I'm / they're worthless", to "Nothing but parasites", to "We should all just go extinct." We are all social beings, and deficiencies in social…

I would argue that if someone requires a shock to act like they care, then they are probably overestimating the amount they care. I don't say this to be a dick, but rather to point out that this particular argument sounds very hollow to a suicidal person. It's better not to use it. If the suicidal person is holding on because they believe that other people (mom, dad, etc.) care about them, this can make that caring seem trivial enough to stop considering.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#83

Post by yummyfajitas »

reitanqild wrote: post #80
yummyfajitas wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you believe it is wrong? Is this merely dueling anecdotes (plus vacri's accusation of sexism, as if that were a real argument), or is there actual data?

Why do you believe it is wrong? Is this merely dueling anecdotes (plus vacri's accusation of sexism, as if that were a real argument), or is there actual data? Because of the word "never"[0]. That means it is trivial to prove the statement to be false as I and others have plenty of examples that falsifies the statement. [0]: M8 says: "some people claim that women never blame themselves" emphasis mine Edit: And I didn…

Ah, ok - that seems right. I too can name a single woman who has blamed herself at least once, which defeats his weak man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man#Contemporary_work).

However I can't easily refute a pretty trivial steelman (http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man) of his position, namely "women are less likely to blame themselves than men".

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#84

Post by wlesieutre »

mpdehaan2 wrote: post #72
stuff4ben wrote: post #53

As a 40 year old man myself, I've felt the growing ageism in the tech industry since I turned 30. This even here in laid back RTP, NC. I'd imagine it's worse off in the startupy world in Silicon Valley. Every man is different, but I think for me it's a matter of not being able to provide the lifestyle I want to provide for my wife and kids. The movie RV ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449089/ ) is quite relevant too.…

I live in RTP and don't find the ageism thing to be too notable, but I do note that companies do like to hire people like themselves at times, and this is the one thing that happens in an interview that nobody talks about - what really is "cultural fit". Though, often, that's not hiring the guy that has been burned out by 40 years at IBM - not because he's old, but because that place can eat your soul out. Younger em…

RTP?

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#85

Post by crazy_geek »

wlesieutre wrote: post #84
mpdehaan2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in RTP and don't find the ageism thing to be too notable, but I do note that companies do like to hire people like themselves at times, and this is the one thing that happens in an interview that nobody talks about - what really is "cultural fit". Though, often, that's not hiring the guy that has been burned out by 40 years at IBM - not because he's old, but because that place can eat your soul out. Younger em…

RTP?

Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, USA I presume. If you're not in the know, it's another tech center in the US

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#86

Post by crazy_geek »

stuff4ben wrote: post #53

As a 40 year old man myself, I've felt the growing ageism in the tech industry since I turned 30. This even here in laid back RTP, NC. I'd imagine it's worse off in the startupy world in Silicon Valley. Every man is different, but I think for me it's a matter of not being able to provide the lifestyle I want to provide for my wife and kids. The movie RV ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449089/ ) is quite relevant too.…

For me, it wasn't so much the explicit ageism (though it was there to be sure), but more of not fitting in because since some time in my 30's, my social interests don't revolve around the consumption of alcohol anymore, and I've got better/more important things to do after work than hang around with coworkers.

Leaving the silicon-valley-flavored "startup scene" (though I'm at a startup, just not a "startup" startup, per se) where I get to work with grown-ups, while not as profitable, has been a nice lifestyle change, and I highly recommend it.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#87

Post by soylentcola »

hoodoof wrote: post #2

Because if life isn't working out in the way you expected, it starts to become apparent in your 40's.

It may be a bit cliche or corny these days but the song "Time" by Pink Floyd really nails those feelings:

"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking. Racing around to come up behind you again.

The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older Shorter of breath and one day closer to death

Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines"

I'm still in my late 30's but as someone who's felt the occasional depression that's innate to being human, this tune always hits it on the head.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#88

Post by wlesieutre »

crazy_geek wrote: post #85
wlesieutre wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RTP?

Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, USA I presume. If you're not in the know, it's another tech center in the US

Ah, I'm aware of the research triangle, but "RTP" is new for me. Thanks!

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#90

Post by chadzawistowski »

pervycreeper wrote: post #63
brc wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they hit their expectations more often. Lots of women develop goals of having a family, a decent husband and stability in their life. Not all, obviously, but it is a common enough set of goals. Lots of women achieve these goals and gain a state of relative happiness. Lots of men develop goals of things like sporting prowess, business success and material wealth. These things are much less common to achieve th…

>men are also generally more capable of violent acts Do you have a citation for that claim? Also, what distinguishes a "violent" method of killing oneself from a "nonviolent" one?

Probably an issue of wording here. I would have said "men are generally more likely to use violent methods of suicide", which is in fact the case. Obviously both genders are capable of violence.
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