Live data from Hacker News

Game of Thrones leak and watermark: a stupid tracking system

blog.frite-camembert.net

251–260 of 286 posts

Re: Game of Thrones leak and watermark: a stupid tracking system

#251
It's crazy to muck around with timing, When things are quantised to frames you have very little scope for change without it being very noticeable.

There are a heap of image based ways to encode data. Kerning on the credits, Position of titling. Minor brightness colour tweaks.

The thing that springs to mind the most. THERE'S A FULLSCREEN WHITE NOISE EFFECT AT THE START OF THE SHOW. You could stick whatever you want in there.

Re: Game of Thrones leak and watermark: a stupid tracking system

#252
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While stego might be a route, blurring the watermark may not be enough to obscure the source. Given a known frame, they could blur the same portion of the same frame on all watermarked copies, and the one with a matching output is your culprit. Blurring loses information, but is more akin to a hash than a deletion, as it's a deterministic process. Edit: this sort of thing. http://dheera.net/projects/blur

It's a deterministic process, but it still has inputs. You'd have to know those inputs or test for every possible set of inputs to whatever blurring method was used.

It depends on the blurring method. If you do a gaussian blur, for example, you might be able to do a pretty good inverse blur by finding black frames and performing blind deconvolution. If I were at risk I'd use a nonlinear injective filter instead, to make sure information is lost (linear filtering is not only deterministic but perfectly without noise and no frequency response nulls).

Re: Game of Thrones leak and watermark: a stupid tracking system

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not realize how complex the workflow pipelines are for a film or TV series of any kind? And how shows involving a lot of special effects like GoT are orders of magnitude more complex? For the publicity and marketing side of things we like to send actors out on talk shows to talk about character and costumes and drama and so on, and maybe show a few shots of a giant camera on a greenscreen stage to talk about h…

I am hooked on GoT, my response to HBO is thus: "Dear HBO, as a subscriber to HBO since 1983, I am saddened for this leak. As a huge fan of GoT, I am delighted, thank you, I will still watch all episodes in HD and DVR them every Sunday." --- HBO should allow for HBO GO users to see the whole season at a time - the same way netflix does. There is no reason to meter out the story. Netflix dumping a whole season on the…

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. Ever since Game of Thrones started, I have gathered with various groups of friends nearly every Sunday to watch the episode as it airs. Watching Game of Thrones has become a social event primarily because the release structure forces everyone to always be at the same point (even if some have read the books).

In contrast, after House of Cards s3 was released and we watched a few episodes together, it became a free for all. Having a conversation about the show with anyone is practically impossible unless everyone has seen the entire show.

Re: Game of Thrones leak and watermark: a stupid tracking system

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am hooked on GoT, my response to HBO is thus: "Dear HBO, as a subscriber to HBO since 1983, I am saddened for this leak. As a huge fan of GoT, I am delighted, thank you, I will still watch all episodes in HD and DVR them every Sunday." --- HBO should allow for HBO GO users to see the whole season at a time - the same way netflix does. There is no reason to meter out the story. Netflix dumping a whole season on the…

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. Ever since Game of Thrones started, I have gathered with various groups of friends nearly every Sunday to watch the episode as it airs. Watching Game of Thrones has become a social event primarily because the release structure forces everyone to always be at the same point (even if some have read the books). In contrast, after House of Cards s3 was released and we watched a few ep…

This is something I had not ever thought of, so thank you for that.

As a father of three small kids, I don't have the luxury of a weekly viewing parties. I find solace in the times when I have several hours to binge watch at my own pace.

Re: Game of Thrones leak and watermark: a stupid tracking system

#255
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/r/GameOfThrones has 484k subscribers. /r/HouseOfCards has 50k subscribers. These are not "small communities" and there's no reason that there should be 9.5x more interest in GoT than HoC; they're both gritty political thrillers and HoC usually has more episodes per season than GoT. I posit that the GoT sub is much more active because the way that HBO releases content makes communal watching and discussion much easie…

I know Reddit and subreddits fairly well - most subscribers to a sub are silent and passive. 50k is a small community. Stacked against the whole of the viewerbase, 50k is even smaller a community. I posit that GoT is much more active because the show draws on a hugely engaging series of books that has been building a fanbase for a decade - an excellent reason for an 8x difference in size. Bluntly, you're not making a…

Anecdotally, I have three different friend groups I talk to about Game of Thrones. Everyone is always caught up, the line for book spoilers is obvious, and as a result its a common conversation topic anyone can join in on. Conversely, no one talks about House of Cards. We've tried a few times, but after a bunch of "I've watched it all," "I'm on episode 8," "Oh, I'm only on episode 5," etc. we just stopped bringing it up.

At the end of the day, television is just entertainment. And I get a lot more entertainment from being able to discuss drip-rate shows with friends.

Re: Game of Thrones leak and watermark: a stupid tracking system

#256

Was talking to my partner about this and she had a pretty clever take: "Seems like a simple idea would simply be to change just the spelling of one seemingly insignificant name near the end of each version of the credits and then by actually watching the credits you'd know the leaker straight away." "Of course, you'd leave the watermark on there so the leaker doesn't know how you caught them and thinks that the water…

Or, just add an insignificant name (changing someone's name might run you afoul of contracts, even in a review copy).

You're right about changing. Credit is very big deal for those who worked on it...

But in this wide world there are fans who painstakingly go through the credit and put the text online. Sometimes even special thanks. So a fake name could be detected, and once the m.o. is detected, in this networked age, everyone would know it and people will start looking for it.

Re: Game of Thrones leak and watermark: a stupid tracking system

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually know that or are you speculating? I wouldn't be surprised if MP4 (or other video formats) provided a mechanism for tweaking the timing of a given frame. Of course, if you're using such a primitive watermark you might as well just add a note in the metadata...

Yes, I know that - I work in film and post-production for a living and I can explain the origin and workflow aspects of video frame rates to you in excruciating detail. You know how annoying it is when you watch a movie and there's some sort of 2-dimensional 'hacker' character and s/he just says some gobbledegook about 'hacking the password' or whatever, you see something a progress bar briefly on screen, and then th…

[deleted]

Re: Game of Thrones leak and watermark: a stupid tracking system

#258
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know that - I work in film and post-production for a living and I can explain the origin and workflow aspects of video frame rates to you in excruciating detail. You know how annoying it is when you watch a movie and there's some sort of 2-dimensional 'hacker' character and s/he just says some gobbledegook about 'hacking the password' or whatever, you see something a progress bar briefly on screen, and then th…

[deleted]

I'm not wrong. Not because such things aren't possible (duh, we have cameras that can do varying frame rates), but because I am aware that content creators contract to deliver a product that will play back properly anywhere. Distributors' deliverables lists specify the exact frame and sample rates that they want, as opposed to what's potentially achievable within the format. Handing them something encoded with variable frame rate is going to result in automatic rejection.

Here's an example of a deliverables manual, from Netflix: http://newworlddistro.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/FullTec... You will get something similar from any broadcaster or video distributor. I'm not making careless extrapolations of my knowledge here, but telling you what the industry standards are. I have long involved email conversations about these things with distributors so that stuff I submit to them doesn't get sent back, triggering contractual penalty clauses for late/non-delivery that will make a producer cross with me.

Re: Game of Thrones leak and watermark: a stupid tracking system

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am hooked on GoT, my response to HBO is thus: "Dear HBO, as a subscriber to HBO since 1983, I am saddened for this leak. As a huge fan of GoT, I am delighted, thank you, I will still watch all episodes in HD and DVR them every Sunday." --- HBO should allow for HBO GO users to see the whole season at a time - the same way netflix does. There is no reason to meter out the story. Netflix dumping a whole season on the…

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. Ever since Game of Thrones started, I have gathered with various groups of friends nearly every Sunday to watch the episode as it airs. Watching Game of Thrones has become a social event primarily because the release structure forces everyone to always be at the same point (even if some have read the books). In contrast, after House of Cards s3 was released and we watched a few ep…

Linear TV is over though. You can easily setup watch clubs or movies without having some exec throw your series around and invade your schedule and stretch it across a season.

Entertainment, in such a busy world, should be available at the leisure of the viewer, not some game rigged to keep interest over a time. Personally I'd rather watch the whole GoT season now to avoid seeing spoilers.

I think because of binging, better quality content is being created that is more complete and movie like. This content is meant to be consumed as a whole complete series and written as such, rather than hacked together a few weeks out and more plot holes or unnecessary episodes. Shows are so much better consumed in whole rather than across many many weeks, it leads to a stronger buy into the characters and the writing.

With binging, full availability, people can also easily catch up this way and watch older series more readily together. What we are moving to is a much better system than linear broadcast television which was only that way because there was limited network and resource availability, also it was all about the ads. I am sure there will be more watchers groups setup to binge together because so much more TV is available this way.

Re: Game of Thrones leak and watermark: a stupid tracking system

#260

How can people so easily assume that the watermark was truly the only tracking present? HBO wouldn't immediately come out swinging even if they knew who or where the copy was leaked.

Thats an astute observation. Whenever you're tricking someone, you put something stupid easy in for the tricked person to defeat, so they assume they're tricking you.

But it could be even easier. Why not put the watermark in a different location for every copy you distribute?

Post reply on HN